Pure Beeswax and Dreadwax

Beeswax is not the same as dreadwax.

Just a note about the 140 degree Fahrenheit deal some folks have been claiming. That is true for pure beeswax, but you have to remember that the wax people generally use for locks is a solution of beeswax and hempseed oil. When the wax and oil are combined it greatly reduces the melting temperature. I don't know what the exact melting point for DHHQ wax is (the only wax I have experience with) but, it can't be much more than 98 degrees Fahrenheit because it became very soft and pliable from the heat of my fingers. Don't go burning your scalps people. :cheers2:

 

softening is not melting ..melting is the temp it goes from a solid to a luiquid
beeswax becomes softer the warmer it gets but doesnt become luiquid till 140
although you maybe right that it may have a lower melting temp
any wax (or for that matter luiquid that becomes solid at a cooler temp) becomes softer and softer as it approaches that temp
metal fotr instance can be easily shaped and bended far below the temp required to luiquify it
soft wax still isnt very easy to get out..certainly its more pliable then cold hardened wax, but tuill its luiquid its still just a softer solid and at best will be easier to scrape away huge clumpy buildups


but yes do be very carefyul with the heat

 

Pure beeswax does not get soft and malleable in your fingers. The melting temperature difference is significant between pure beeswax and beeswax combined with an oil. All I'm saying is that claiming one shouldn't use dread wax because it doesn't melt until 140 degrees Fahrenheit is the same as arguing that one shouldn't use sea salt because salt doesn't melt until heated to 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit. When substances are in a homogenous mixture aka solution they have completely different properties than when they are alone. This needs to be taken into full consideration before any claims about melting temperature can be made.

 

beaswax does too soften in your hand
a warm day in the 90's nearly luiquifies it..nearly it becomes a thick snotlike texture
ive used it alot when making jewlery and stuff and iu can just put it in the palm of your hand and let it soften to be workable..it becomes like a paste consistency
im nit saying the oils dont alter the temop i have no info on that (and sea salyt doesnt haftas melt it disiolves in water)

the oint still remains ..wax shouldnt be in your hair to begin with
it still rwequires fairkly high temps to luiquify (luiquid as in easily poured thriugh a pouroues substance like a dread withouyt being trapped inside..the viscousity would have to be no thicher then like a cough syrup consistency)

pure beeswax or dreadwax doesnt matter enough in the temperature difference to make it safe to use
a flame..about 400 degrees would still take several seconds to luiquify a small puddle do to how heats exchanged (is not instantanuis)
so your not only exposed to excessive heat, but have to be for a periods of time sufficient enough to raisse the temp of all the wax to the melting point
odviosly 400 degrees will raise the tem\p of say 1/8 oz of wax much faster then 160 degreews will which is safer, but will need multiple attempts to get smaller amounts of wax out
temps at or below the melting pint will do lil to nothing..temps 5 degres over will need several minutes to remove a small amount (and as the water raises the wax temp, the wax lowers the water temp through heat exchange so you'll have ti reaheat the water more often doing even more attemopts to remove very lil
odviosly by this we see that any temps high enough to do more then the tiniest bit of good also require a decent amount of time at that temp to do much good
so the conclusion being that wax use is dangerouse wether the melting ponts 140 or 130
u still need a water temop suficiently higher then that point to stay hot enough long enough to raise the wax temp above that point and not just cool down before doing much good resolidifying the wax

now water alone exposed to roomrtemp air exchanges heat..i cant remember the formuleas from when i was studying meteorology
but its safe to guess at about 1 degree a minute add to that the wax (id bneed to know the specific heat of it to know how much heat exvchange over tome takes place) its pretty easy to take a very rough guess at needing 15-20 degrees above the melting point for 15-20 minutes exposure to melt maybe 2-3 m&m sized amounts

very rough guess but u see the point.. u need excess heat..plus time at a temp above the needed temp to get some..not all of the wax hot enoigh to be removeable

isnt it better to just stop suggesting people put it there to begin with?problems solved if theres no waxneeding melting

 

I'm not going to read your post because it's very long and I don't have the energy anymore, but I just realized there is no point to arguing with you because 1)dreadwax easily dissolves out of the dread when soap is added to the picture and 2) you are never wrong. The purpose of this post was only to warn people not to burn their scalps by trying to wash with 140 degree water. Have a good night soaringeagle, and try not to have any nightmares about those evil crochet hooks or dreadwax Yikes, I better go! I'm gettin the heebie jeebies just thinking about "unnatural" dreadlocks.

 

And for the record, I never once advised anyone to use wax. I just stated my experience with it. (read the last sentence of your post)

 

Yeah sorry, even though the wax gets manageable and soft to the touch with body heat so definitely doesn't melt until at least 120 degrees. Unlike SE, I have had experience using wax, while very short, it was still a learning experience on how awful that shit is. It definitely doesn't come out easily, and is water resistant. I would go as far as saying that you need many very hot showers and washes to get wax out or soak your head in 140 degree water and soap solution, possibly some ACV too.

By his last post I think his point was why warn everyone about the dangers of using hot water to get the wax out instead of warning people not to use wax in the first place.

 

arg.... that is all...

 

brayingdonkey, youre quite right.
i work with beeswax and this:

is just not true if were talking about pure beeswax.
it is very hard at room temp or body temp. you need to put it over a double boiler at rather high temp to get it to melt.
that is the point at which you add oils to change its consistency. many natural cosmetics and balms are made this way because beeswax is an excellent base for such things.

now lets talk about soap. what do you think the purpose of soap is?
to remove oily substances.
it strips skin oils, it cuts grease on dishes, it removes residues.
and it will remove an oil/wax mixture.

now, if you cake wax into your hair, simple laws of logic will tell you that its not going to just wash right out in one go, because its physically stuck inside and needs a lot of work to get out.

but if were talking about applying a reasonable amount to the outside of the dreads: yes, it really will wash out in one wash so that you will not feel it or smell it (because it will not be there).

this has been my experience with kb wax and brayingdonkeys experience with dhhq wax.
on top of that, it made my hair shiny and soft.
i cut my old set that i used wax on (for personal reasons, not because there was anything wrong with them) and still have the dreads. they are pristine.

im speaking in a simple fashion because some people on this board seem a little challenged in terms of reading and comprehension. not that theres anything wrong with that, i just want to make it as easy to understand as possible.



edit: i do not and have never recommended dread wax for anyone and i dont use it myself anymore, simply because it is unnecessary and many people abuse it and end up with major problems.
but those who use it and find it helpful are not "wrong". it really helps smooth frizzies (better than aloe in my experience) and it conditioned my hair very nicely. and if someone wanted to use it for those benefits, who the hell am i to tell them their dreads are going to fail... when that is absolute bullshit if youre not stupid about using the product.

 

Why even bother guys????
There IS a huge difference between dreadwax and PURE wax. Again I had no problems at all removing DHHQ wax from my dreads...and all it takes is shampoo and hot water , regular ole tap water ....not boiling water. And yes I even did SE's little experiment of dipping my locks into boiling water and...nothing....so I am quite positive that I am indeed wax free from just regular ole washing. It is wax for christs sake not concrete.
Now I do know when my kids leave crayons in my car....that shit is impossible to remove once melted....so kids....dont melt crayons into your hair!!!!!!

 

HAHAHA callie.... No crayons... I'll keep that in mind.

I useed knotty boy dreadwax for probably the first few months... and I KNOW that it was coming out with regular washing because I'm the one who cleans my bathroom and that shit is a bitch to scrub of a bathtub. And as far as I know I never showered under boiling water.

Edit: and I like scattered leave am not saying use dreadwax or whatnot... just that if you do, or you have already, don't go cutting off you dreads... they'll be fine. Wax is not neccessary

 

I have used both, I found DHHQ a little easier to work with and washed out easier. However K-Boys smelled so yummy!!!!
Ya know I really think when people make these WAX is the devil shit, maybe they should clarify which wax they used...there are difference among them all.

 

This thread was just to clear up facts about melting temps and things though

 

yeah but I do think different wax's would have different melting points...am I wrong?

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=vJ...=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPA83,M1

ok scattered if your so smart how can these art projects mold beeswax using only the heat from theyre hands to make it pliable enough to sculpt?

im telling you from experience that beeswax does indeed become plenty soft enough to work with just from the warmth of your hasnds
this is used alot in molding beeswax
every car you see on the streeet is originaly designed in beeswax, the bosdy hand molded (or carved with tools, but the details are warmed by hand then molded in.. applying heat with a hairdryer or flame could ruin the work melting it too fast so the lower heat of hands is used to get just the right softeness to mold it.
my uncly had a private engineering company that designed many toys, and on ocasion desinged things for the military (helicopters and such)
again the original concept designs are hand sculpted in beeswax
you can take a chunk thats hard, press your finger into the side of it, it wont budhgge at 1st, but keep pressing for a minute or 2 and it will soften enough to press your finger into it
just try taking a chunk and rolling it between your hands a round ball will stay round for a lil bit but as soon as its warming up will compress and lengthen to a long wormlike and very flexible tube that will then harden again when cooled.

if this wasnt true why are there craft and art sites saying that you can easily use the heat from your hands to soften it enough to make it workable?

 

Wasn't that the OP's point?

 

SE, I followed your link and tried to find the info you quoted. Once again, I could not find it.
Please provide a direct link & quote of your sources next time.

 

well SE if wax is that damn easy to work with and even melt in your hands...then why the hell are always screaming that wax cant be removed unless ya stick your head in a pot of veggie soup or something???

 

yeah

 

ok then, proof that im not... lying or something

(vid gone)

that shit is HARD. in order to use it for cosmetics, i need to grate it or shave little bits off with a knife.
idk what youve used se, but its obviously not pure beeswax but a mixture.

damn i should prove my arguments with my webcam more often. its quick and easy.
sorry for the rap shite, its my brothers tunes lol.