There were some words said in another thread that need be addressed. I didn't want to threadjack though because these quotes came from a threat about torture, but my comments are about Obama being a complete liar. He said this was going to be the most transparent administration in history. FAIL!! They have backroom deals and emergency votes on Christmas eve when nobody is watching. Pelosi saying we have to pass the healthcare bill so you can see what is in it. He said he would make all bills available to read online. FAIL!! Where are they?? He said he was going to put all the debates on C-SPAN. FAIL!! Where are they?? He said he would compromise with the Republicans. FAIL!! Name one place where the Dems compromised with the Reps? But Bush tried to compromise with the Dems, to his detriment. He signed CAFE standards and TARP as a misguided attempt at compromise. He said that unemployment would not rise above 8% if we got the stimulus passed. FAIL!! It's at 9.5%. And that was a lie, not a mistake or whatever, because no one thought the stimulus would actually lower unemployment. LOL!!! That's hilarious I can't think of any other lies right now, other than "The Cambridge Police acted stupidly." Which actually may not have been a lie. He was just off teleprompter and didn't know what to say and he has hated the Cambridge Police since his days at Harvard. I'm sure Pressed Rat and others can help me out with about 10 more really important lies. Not silly ones that don't really matter. And this is the place to discuss it. I was about to reply in the other thread, but then I realized that might not be appropriate because its off topic.
All debates in both the house and senate are always shown on C-Span. All bills can either be read at senate.gov or house.gov. Nifty little thing called the internet, it's been that way since long before Obama/ And Obama has compromised on everything to the Republicans, he folds like a house of cards on everything. And TARP was a program created by Bush.
Yes, all maters of the house and senate are public record. Go there right now and read some bills that will probably never pass.
I've never checked out either website that Madcap named, but I've always been able to read them on political sites and news sites. I'm on the e-mail list of a few groups, particularly savetheinternet, which everyone using this site should be a member of. These groups usually have any bills related to their causes posted or linked while they are in progress. I've actually read multiple drafts of this Food Safety thing and I don't even remember being very interested. Just stumbled onto them or something.
They're the actual websites of both the senate and the house of representatives, hence the .gov suffix.
You are kinda right, my Obama lies are a little off. He said we could have the healthcare negotiations on CSPAN, which I don't think they did. He said we could have 5 days to review the healthcare online before he would sign it. Which I don't believe we had. Name one thing he has compromised on. He is the most partisan liberal president in history. If he compromised, I would hate to see the disaster he wanted. The point is that his policies suck, but maybe he did compromise from even more sucky. And yes, TARP was a Bush program. That was my point, Bush was a liberal. We need a conservative to run this country because liberal policies don't work. But this is about Obama's lies, not necessarily his policies.
It's not Obama's fault no one watches CSPAN. And there was a 6 hour long conference between party leaders that was shown on the major networks that had them all debating on the issues of the bill. I don't think he did either, but given the fact the bill had dominated the news for months and the version they voted on hadn't change in weeks there was more than ample time. Better game, name one thing Republicans haven't threatened to filibuster. Plus it's easy to name one, it's in the news today, Obama caved to Republicans on tax cuts in record time even by his standards. Actually here's a whole article on it, and this was from last year
A failed prediction is not a lie if I make the statement believing the prediction will be realized. If I knowingly make a false statement, especially with regard to a current situation, that's a lie. For example if I write a check for $1,000 and have a bank balance of $100 and no money coming in in the near future, that's a lie, that's "false pretences". If I'm married and say I'm single, that's a lie. If I'm President and say Guantanamo will be closed in a year, that's a failed prediction. It fails because I have political opponents that block me from realizing that goal.
I actually found all liberal media sites that back me up. The LA times, Wash Post, CBS and MSNBC. As well as hopeandfail.com and thehill.com but I figured some might not believe those stupid conservative sites. Yes there were lots of debates on the health care debate on cspan http://www.c-span.org/Health-Care-House-Debate.aspx But the thing is, CSPAN wanted more. And Pelosi was not interested. "We will do what is necessary to pass the bill," Pelosi said. "We don't even know if there's going to be a conference committee," he said, alluding to the likelihood that Democrats will reconcile the two bills behind closed doors. (Chris Van Holland D-MD) http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...span-there-has-never-been-a-more-open-process Brian Lamb of CSPAN wrote asking for cameras to be let in to some of the more informal debates. Those are where some back room deals were being done. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/01/democrats-reid-pelosi-healthcare-cspan.html And it's all wrapped up by CBS http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/06/eveningnews/main6064298.shtml (Not sure why those two didn't appear as links.) I don't care to name one thing the Reps didn't filibuster because I support most of the filibusters. They filibustered a bunch because it was good for America. The point is that Obama lied about Compromise. And when he had both houses all his policies sucked. Like I said before I don't like to think about what he wanted if what we got was his compromise. I prefer to think that he didn't compromise. Bush did compromise. TARP and CAFE. No, the version they ended up voting on was not unchanged in weeks. I don't remember how long it was, but after they made their final plan they rushed it to vote in the senate, then the house, then the president ASAP. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/22/AR2010032201817.html http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35999823/ns/politics-health_care_reform http://www.hopeandfail.com/2010/03/23/no-five-day-rule-for-health-care/
Are you saying Obama doesn't lie all the time. True a failed prediction is not a lie, but "Unemployment will not rise above 8% if we pass the stimulus." That was a political lie.
Polifact says: Tracking Obama’s promises 123 Promise Kept 40 Compromise 24 Promise Broken 84 Stalled 232 In the Works Also saying Republicans filibustered for the good of the country is laughable. They filibustered and stopped payment to 9/11 workers, they complain about immigration yet stall any attempt congress makes to tackle the issue, they stalled hundreds of appointments, they're stalling repealing don't ask don't tell because as McCain put it apparently we need a study, to study the study that we're going to use to study the troops. Hell this week millions of Americans are losing their unemployment insurance because Republicans threatened to filibuster everything until tax cuts for the super duper rich are passed because apparently cutting taxes for everyone making under $1 million still wasn't enough compromise.
No it's not, it's a prediction which he may have genuinely believed. Noone could actually know how much growth the stimulus would create and what you believe depends on which side of the economic-political fence you are on. At least Obama, more than previous prezzies, takes advise from both sides of the divide. Compare: Bush surrounded himself with neocon advisers on foreign policy and unsurprisingly came to genuinely believe the evidence for WMD was unequivocal. (Cheney and Rumsfeld went culpably too far and instructed the intelligence services to find evidence, which colored data interpretation and selection)
That's not a lie, unless you can prove he knew that unemployment would rise above 8%. For all you know, he made that claim based on his top economic advisers, so don't jump to this whole "Obama lies!" schtick, it sounds childish. Also it's the economy, things are hard to predict. Plus the stimulus bill saved over 2 million jobs IIRC, so why don't you give some credit where it's due.
