new study says "Anti-depressants a waste of time"

something ive said for years and have taken a lot of flack for it. IMO, anti depressants were created for control over the masses,nothing more and this just reiterates that belief...

http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gVJDAnYziRdUKG2eGWus-IPauPlA

Research indicating that new-generation anti-depressants work no better than dummy pills was seized upon as evidence that doctors are over-prescribing.

Mental health campaigners said millions of people with depression were not getting sufficient access to talking therapies due to GPs being over reliant on prescribing drugs such as Prozac.

It follow a review of clinical trials that found that such drugs had no more effect than a placebo for mildly depressed patients and for most people suffering severe depression.

The study showed that even trials suggesting benefit for severely depressed people did not provide evidence of clear clinical benefit, researchers said.

Dr Tim Kendall, deputy director of the Royal College of Psychiatrists Research Unit, said the findings were "fantastically important".

A group of experts, led by Professor Irving Kirsch, from the Department of Psychology at the University of Hull, analysed 47 clinical trials using data released under Freedom of Information rules by the US Food and Drug Administration.

The researchers looked at four commonly-used anti-depressants and the clinical trials submitted to gain licensing approval. They included anti-depressants regularly prescribed in the UK, including fluoxetine (Prozac), venlafaxine (Efexor) and paroxetine (Seroxat).

They found little evidence of benefit when analysing both unpublished and published data from the drug companies. Furthermore, the seemingly good results for very severely depressed patients came from the fact a patient's response to the dummy pill decreased rather than any notable increase in their response to antidepressants.

Professor Kirsch said: "The difference in improvement between patients taking placebos and patients taking antidepressants is not very great. This means that depressed people can improve without chemical treatments."

Alison Cobb, policy officer at mental health charity Mind, said: "This research is a serious challenge to the predominance of drugs in treating depression. Nine out of 10 GPs say they've been forced to dish out drugs because they don't have proper access to talking treatments such as cognitive behavioural therapy, which are recommended as the first-line treatment for mild to moderate depression."

 

in order to make sense of this report, the whole article needs to read. it can be found in the american journal called Public Library ofscience Medicine. the study has been called flawed because of its narrow control fields

people who participated in the study were outpatients, not admitted suicidal patients. nor did they have any drug or alcohol problems, this limits the whole survey because no other wider applications were used

65% - 75% people improve taking anti depressants where as only 10% - 15% improved taking the placebo

suicide rates have fallen where AD were used even a low level of depression can increase the risk of suicide

the study used data from 2002 and the author continues the ideas
from another journal from this time

Also people take AD's for many reasons in low dosed for sleep, panic attacks
mental illness and personaliy disorders and medical reasons often people who have limbs removed are prescribed AD's before and after the surgery

it also must be told that for many people feel better and have a positive
life

yes, pharmacies abd doctors make alot of money. it is how the system works. the competition and crazy rules of patents. not to mention the pretend guinea pig trials so sometimes, they gey prescribede too much on the whole, doctors are accountable for their actions

 

i dunno where your getting your info from,, i dont see any correlation between what all the articles ive read say and what your stating what so ever..

in fact ive found no claims that the study is flawed in a quick search.

could you provide a link to the study your referring to with the author of the said study named so as i can be sure your even looking at the same study as this article refers to?or at the very least a link to a article disputing its findings..
thanks

 

bugger, i lost my post so point form

British mediacal journals that are peer related have more cred than
an internet site

info is coming from the British Medical Journal

additioanl info can be found in The times and The lancet medical journal

this study is a PR exercise due to mo ney and patent works

i have mentioned in detail wher this info came from. you may be baiting me for i know because you don't seem just wanting to discuss stuff it feels almost like your wanting me to be wrong so you can make a point you post and i thought
we could have a meaningul convo i am still new, but i am not trying to prove anything

you son't have to agree, but don't push your values onto others
ibut this is way oiff the subject you started

 

oh so without anything to back it up im just supposed to believe what you say? i dont think so..

as i stated i have already done a search and found NOTHING agreeing with your statements, since you cant provide a direct link and i cant find the documents you claim to have read i can only take what you say with a grain of salt..

if you could provide documents backing your statements we perhaps could debate the finer points,however it doesnt appear as you can..

as far as baiting you? why because id like to see your evidence?

i wasnt trying to push anything on anyone,,i merely posted a article reaffirming that that i believe. however if you feel posting fact is pushing something on someone then i guess i am...

 

Ian hicke of The brain and mind research institute at sydney uni arged these points i have already mentioned in the same edition of British Medical Journal

Prof irving Kicndh from the uni of Hull bui;ds on earlier info from 5 years ago and is building his dtudies on old theories, not original

btw, your web page lists no references

 

whatever you say,i posted a article that is in no fewer than 10 other publications.. youve posted not link 1 but you over ride me,,okeydokey ...

i shouldnt have expected anything less from this pill dependent world.

take the article however you wish an keep on poppin your shit,youll make the government proud,its just what they want...

 

Whatever more anti-drug propaganda...aginst pot, againt prozac....against everthing.... whatever......

 

^what is that about your attacking me on a personal level popping pills, is that directed at me i don't take them it is okay, i have a tough skin in fact i am not sure if your being rude or just trolling because you are bored

some of my info comes from medical journals and todays newspaper which came from originally the times nespaper

i am off to bed, goodnight

i will remember not to reply to your post as you just seem cross rather than swapping info and learning from one another you act as uif you kow everything
and cant see another view point even if you don't agree you have replied to my posts before in a rude manner. So you don't like me, that's ok, i don't know you and it isn't worth worrying about one person. i will know for next time to leave you alone

 

take the article however you wish an keep on poppin your shit,youll make the government proud,its just what they want...

so your getting pissed at me, why are you getting yout knickers in a twist


eno i am not sure what you mean

 

Directed at OP not at U^ I dont know what your getting at... Dont seem rational.. If ppl are pill dependant then thats what ppl do... If they are brain washed then it dont matter how much soap you got .. You cant get them clean...

If ppl want to be robots, Be told this pill will make you better let em...It ppl self medicate with dope, coke heroin, alcohol,, let em when they need to be treated for their heads being fucked up.. Fuck emm.. idk... It works if you work it so work it your worth it... idk..

 

thanks eno

i am rational. i think hillbilly was getting nasty and personal when there is no need or call for it it's ok, i will give him a wideberth and ignore him no worries

 

well i feel my thought process is very rational,my thinking is its others who are irrational about things. however you are 100% correct about the brainwashing,which is in my opinion one of the major reasons that lead to just such a dependency on these drugs.
so yeah,, in a nutshell this was a pointless thread..

as i stated they can go on poppin there pills,doesnt matter about the evidence it does no good..

what was i thinking?? its obvious i wasnt thinking of whom i was dealing with..

and ava dear,, if i was going to level a personal attack at you youd know it..

my statements are made as a generality of the mindset you seem to be portraying,they were in no way directed specifically at you..

so dont flatter yourself.

 

take the article however you wish an keep on poppin your shit,youll make the government proud,its just what they want...

so hillbilly, so the above statement made by you wasn't being rude
or making a personal attack
so, what was it about if it wans't directed at me
was it directed at people in general

i am going to bed
this is getting silly, far from an interesting convo i thought it
would be

 

yes as i stated it was a general statement as to the mindset you seem to be portraying.believe it or not,,i could care less..


well sleep well,,perhaps when you awaken someone will have typed something you wish to read here..

nighty night....

 

i have re read this thread, as i said my info comes from the most recent medical journals, both brithish and american. the Us journal was Public library of Public Medicine and the british medical Journal


it was my mistake to assume you were referring to me in your comment " take the article however you wish an keep on poppin your shit,youll make the government proud,its just what they want... "


since you had used the words you and yours and you'll. it was easy to make that mistake that it was personal. it certainly was passive agressive if it wasn't meant to be personal, change the words Also in previous threads that i had written concerning Mental illness, you had displayed your lack of understanding

you do come across as getting shitty, it is not about who knows more
it is about conversing in cyberspace no doubt you will replywith insight
just remember take it easy

eno, thanks for your replys

i do apologise about the bold type, can't fix it

 

and you come off as arrogant enough to just expect people to take your words on there screen as fact even though you provide no documentation whatsoever to back it up.. sorry i aint that naive..

well id love to sit an have ya misinterpret my words on your screen for a while but i gotta go to work..

you have a great day....

 

ok, here you go

article is online as are the journals scroll down for addy
i am not going to read this thread anymore because debates/discussions are
suppossed to be interesting. We don't seem to get along and i can no longer
be bothered. you seem to be angry and while i don't want to flatter myself
i seem to piss you off. i would rather talk to people with a sense of humour and are a little more relaxed

this was from a thread about hurt feeling online in hip forums i wrote

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b59/ava121/depression.jpg
you can zoom in
i am too lazy to find the journals online
you may need a docs provider number or be suscribed
which i have access too

 

is this the article by chance ava? or something close to the one you are trying to quote???
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23283632-662,00.html


MENTAL health experts say patient's lives could be at risk if they stop taking anti-depressant drugs, after a UK study raised doubts about their effectiveness.

The Australian Medical Association has questioned the research methods of the UK study which claimed best-selling anti-depressants were barely more effective than sugar pills.

Association spokesman Dr Choong-Siew Yong, a Sydney psychiatrist, said anti-depressants were life-saving for depressed people and it was essential for patients to speak to their doctor if they felt their treatment was ineffective.

Dr Yoong said the study could not be relied because they represented the average results from from scores of separate studies with different drugs.

“That is not to say the evidence is wrong. It‘s a study that’s important for professionals, but I don’t think any reasonable psychiatrist, and I can safely speak for my colleagues, would advise people to stop taking their medications,” Dr Yoong said.

“The message the study gives us is that we have a long way to go in being able to pick the right medications for each patient, whether they have mild or severe depression.”

There were controls in place to ensure drugs performed the job they were designed for.

This included the Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration closely monitoring the effectiveness of drugs, while drug companies were also required to publish the results of drug trials.

The new claims come after a Melbourne psychologist Michael Carr-Gregg said he feared mentally fragile patients could stop taking their medication as a result of the study that found anti-depressants like Prozac and Seroxat were barely more effective than placebos in treating most people with depression.

"That will potentially create a large number of people with depression who are untreated," he told 3AW today.

"We know most of the people who end their own life have a mental illness and about 70 per cent of those people have a depressive illness of some type. They are all at risk."

The research, led by a British university and which analysed 47 clinical trials, breaks new ground by incorporating data not previously released by drug companies which researchers obtained under US freedom of information laws.

Its findings prompted some academics and mental health campaigners to question whether people with mild and moderate depression should be prescribed drugs like Prozac, which has been taken by 40 million people worldwide.

"The difference in improvement between patients taking placebos and patients taking anti-depressants is not very great,'' said Professor Irving Kirsch of Hull University, in northern England, who led the team.

"This means that depressed people can improve without chemical treatments.

"Given these results, there seems little reason to prescribe anti-depressant medication to any but the most severely depressed patients unless alternative treatments have failed to provide a benefit.'' .... the article continues

unfortunately once people are into the regimented routine of having there brains chemically altered by substances in a pill form it then takes time to come back down off of them and back into reality and learning to live with themselves as they are....... Too bad they have never been shown how to do this without the use of some sort of "mask" and then have no clue how to go about it and just stop taking these things cold turkey and crash.... i think the studies overall are showing more and more that indeed the use of medicines are over used and used for the wrong reasons to begin with .... therefore it isnt going to help those people by and large... only the few that indeed do need some sort of therapeutic balancing is it going to help...


to me it shows that people need to be more educated early on in life to deal with life so that they dont need to be "fixed" on a daily basis

 

no, it is a different article
you can zoom in and read it
this is from yesterdays The australian newspaper
and more detailed views are in the medical journals

your article is still an interesting read
i was just about to log off when i saw this