My arguement against Communism, and for Freedom.

My friends, with all due respect; I would like to explain to you my opinion on communism, and why (I think) I would never work. Communism is a scape goat for big government. That is not my opinion, but fact. In order for one to offer all these programs, they must be facilitated by the Federal Government.

Now, let's think about the homeland, and see how the Government is doing with our money here. A good example is Social Security. As you may know, this is pretty much government life insurance (and retirement funds,) that we pay for weekly, out of each paycheck. But even though we've been paying endlessly to this government program, they're broke!! Now they're Stockpiling weapons and ammunition, and for what??

http://oig.ssa.gov/newsroom/blog/20...responds-concerns-over-ammunition-procurement

My point is; Do not trust "Big Brother," not with our money. Communism is like being under a government monopoly. You must buy the governments healthcare, welfare, life insurance and, line the pockets of an elite few. The idea that money is going to go around is (unfortunately,) not reality. I believe that Government is theft.

If I start a business under a true capitalist society, and I sell a lot of my product, that doesn't make me a bad person, does it? I mean the doctors, small business owners and even (some,) musicians deserve their money, don't you think? (The musicians mainly for touching people's lives.) But the problem with America's capitalism, is that people get special benefits from our government; Big Businesses and Big Brother in America, are working together. The "Military-industrial complex," if-you-will.

Why do the Banks love our government? Because the government can give them special benefits, and change the laws as they like. They get money at half price from the federal reserve, and loan it to us on the idea that the interest you will pay back, will make them money.

The reason Marijuana is not legal, is because pharmaceutical company's go lobby to Barrack Obama, or whoever else, then drug laws aren't even a topic of discussion anymore. The government can't adapt because this is the only bubble, that they have the power to keep us in. People need to stop voting for the guy who says "Change." and actually look at their policies and the type of things they do.

But back to communism; we as people, should be able to live as free individuals. Freedom cannot come from slavery. If one is working for the man, and living in houses that are all the same size, and getting paid just as much as everyone else, when you get a promotion. It seems like a police state/ nightmare world to me. It doesn't sound like a stimulating fun world like many communist/socialist would have you believe. With freedom comes local communities, and people investing closer to home.

It's not capitalism I'm alluding to. I am not a conservative, nor am I a republican. I just fight for what I think is right, and I think knowledge is power. I only believe in freedom, and I think "My country tis of thee, sweet land of Liberty." I don't think people should forget that, we once had the most prosperous middle class in the world. It wasn't brought about from communism, it was brought about by freedom.

But I also want people to know, this isn't what the founding fathers intended for. We had many documents like the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence that would've protected us from this upcoming police state, but we've been too afraid of each other, too angry at each other to care. Our founders, [FONT=&quot]against all odds, went against Great Brittan, and won their independence. Our founders were opposed to over taxation, and private banks robbing the people of their wealth. They decided to protest and stop paying taxes to Great Brittan which inadvertently started the Revolutionary War. We gained our independence in 1776. Anyway, I've been rambling for awhile so comments/complaints?? I'm dying to hear them..
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"My point is; Do not trust "Big Brother," not with our money. Communism is like being under a government monopoly. You must buy the governments healthcare, welfare, life insurance and, line the pockets of an elite few. The idea that money is going to go around is (unfortunately,) not reality. I believe that government is theft'

Sounds like a representive republic I know.

 

Lol, you're right there! That's exactly where I was getting at, I'm gonna change it.

 

I don't know where to begin there, it wasn't very coherent.

I do agree, there's nothing wrong with making money, and I don't believe all or even most means of production should be in the hands of the government. Some that we all depend on obviously are though, such as roads and transportation, and I also believe healthcare and education.

Also, we didn't rebel for freedom, that was an after thought after tea prices were too high.

 

No, you're wrong. The founders left Britten because of over taxation, religious prosecution, the lack of rights to bear arms and, freedom of speech.

And if I may, sir. My post was utterly coherent, perhaps it is you yourself, that is not coherent? I will say I jumped around a bit, but as far as being grammatically correct; it was completely that.

 

And the protection of slavery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somersett's_Case

Coherence does not pertain grammar. The OP was not a logical string of thought supporting your opposition to communism. I don't support it either, so it might not be an important critique.

 

Well okay, why is it important to bring up slavery? I don't think our founders and roots were perfect, but I think the intentions were well, with the morals of the time. A lot of countries didn't stop slavery long after us. In fact, although slavery was made illegal everywhere by 1981, slavery still exists illegally today. It's a touchy subject, but this isn't the only country who has had slaves, and the people had to fight to free them as well.

 

It's important because it was a major reason for the American Revolution, which you brought up.

 

But it's not important, because I'm obviously not advocating slavery.

 

Social Security is not broke:

http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/zenzoe/blog/2010/07/top-5-social-security-myths

 

My friend, this is the US debt clock http://www.usdebtclock.org/ perhaps social security is not broke but that's because they're putting the debt on us. Notice how our top expenditures is Social Security and War?

Oh and just for the hell of it, look at the debt clock of 2008
http://www.usdebtclock.org/2008.html

 

True Communism has never been practiced as a form of government in the history of mankind. You can theorize all you want as to why it wouldn't work, but let me tell you why I think it hasn't and never will be practiced as a form of government. Communism requires that the administration and means of production be placed squarely and completely in the hands of the worker. It requires a population of people devoid of a single individual who cares more about him/herself than the wellfare of the whole. I challenge you to bring 10 people together without at least one person who wouldn't break the rules and/or step on the heads of the other nine just to get a little more power, wealth, or leisure. The tenth person I've just described is the poster boy for what has become "ambition" in society. Therein lies the problem with capitalism and communism. Are we so fucking unimaginative that we have to limit ourselves to literally a handful of methods to govern? Government, any form of government, cannot exist without the consent of the governed - even military dictatorship require, to some extent, the will of the people. There isn't a military on earth, including the United States Military, that could withstand a revolution, cultural or otherwise, by a majority of the people subject to that government. There isn't an industry, or institution on earth that could survive without the approval of the majority. So, how do these institutions maintain their power when they no longer serve the people they were created for in the first place? Deception. Division. Fear. Propaganda. Social Conditioning. Tradition.

Pure Capitalism is as doomed to corruption, violence, war, injustice and inevitable failure as Pure Communism. On the one hand we're talking about a system of government, on the other we're talking about a system of economics. Apples and Oranges it should be, but it's not. In the west, we say that we practice Capitalism, but we don't. The midwest would not be covered in corn and soybeans if agriculture wasn't subsidized. This Socialism, that the right keeps railing about has been supported, encouraged and viciously protected by the Right since the green revolution. Why do you think Iowa is such an important state in the election process? Farmers (more accurately Big AG) are pretty damned important to the survival of the GOP. It's an uncomfortable and paradoxical relationship, because the GOP has to walk a very fine line when they start crying foul and Socialism at the left. I know farmers, and if you ever want to really piss off a farmer, ask him why he votes for a party that denounces Socialism, while he, himself is able to make a living because of Socialism.

Some argue that government gets in the way, prevents Capitalism from working its magic, but Capitalism cannot exist without government. There is no magic. It's incapable of self-regulation, Without the rule of law, competition, that hallmark of Capitalism, is completely removed from the equation. There's nothing to prevent one ruthless organization from finding a way, in short order, to eliminate all other competition. The result? One overlord corporation that in turn assumes the role of government. You may prefer to be identified as a "consumer" rather than "citizen", but in the system I just described you're really just a "serf" or a "slave". You can call this "freedom" if you want, but I call it "Feudalism". So this whole argument, this whole power struggle between regulation and de-regulation, big governent, little government, is a farce. It's basically arguing which is the more important organ - the brain, or the heart? Remove one or the other, take your pick, the result is the same.

You want true freedom? Well then you want anarchy - do whatever the hell you want, when you want, and expect anyone and everyone else to do whatever the hell they want, when they want, to you. You cannot have it both ways. Personally, I prefer to have some say in how I'm governed. I don't want a merchant or a banker to determine which version of government they want to make available for me to choose - but that's where we find ourselves in the United States. Who do you want to answer to? A Big, In-efficient government, full of laws and regulation that that limits the power and control of Big Business over your life, or a small, super-efficient government, with few laws and regulation and little power to keep Big Business and the Super Rich from having complete power and control over your life, the hours you work, the hours and safety condition your children are subjected to? Choose your master, but choose wisely. Last time I checked, unless you had considerable stock, you didn't have much of a say in who GE hired as their CEO.

This is the power struggle going on in the United States, right now, in this election. It's not Democrat verses Republican, it's Democracy verses Plutocracy. Now you can say, "they're all on the take, they're all corporate whores" and you'd be right, and that's not going to change no matter who gets elected, but what it does say is this: "I'm either willing or not willing to vote for a President who openly supports the privatization of the United States government. Choose wisely.

Yeah, it sucks, you only get two to choose from. That's the reality, but you can change that reality. It's not going to happen in the next election cycle, or the election cycle after that. A Ron Paul is never going to usurp the GOP, we saw how quickly they were able to marginalize him. I think it was a huge mistake for him to pursue the republican nomination. But I don't think there's ever been a more promising time for a third, or even a fourth party, than in the coming decades.

 

There is no true choice. You're insinuating I should vote for Obama, correct? There is no way in hell I would vote for a man who so carelessly ignores our constitution. Secondly, this "terrible world" you think I'm describing, is not at all what you think. I want the Government to cut corrupt branches of the CIA, FBI, DHS and, other mislead agencies. This is the best thing for freedom. I enjoyed most of this post, however, we still very much disagree. See, I tend to think of picking "the lesser of two evils," to be sort of wrong, in and of itself.

Obama is worse than Bush, and according to my Liberal friends here on this site(High guys,) Romney is worse than Obama. So I'm not voting for either of them.

 

Oh, there's that big scary debt clock. Who are we in debt to? The Federal Reserve? Ah, yes that shadowy organization of banks, many of which I suspect we bailed the fuck out not so very long ago, ah but we can't be sure, because the FED WON'T REVEAL WHICH BANKS MAKE UP THE FEDERAL RESERVE! Who the fuck is in debt to who? What do you suppose would happen if everyone who had money in this mysterious group of banks made a run on them? Do you think there's a giant warehouse of 1000000 dollar bills somewhere? They don't have it, that money doesn't exist, it's an IOU plus interest, a number, with no real value attached to it. They could print it of course (try doing that yourself, and then have the brass balls to charge interest on it, when you lend it out to your more gullible friends, acquaintences, or government).

 

I agree completely with this lol. I think that we really should be asking what does the repercussions of this debt consist of? Perhaps our slavery, and spending our lives working for the man, and our children's lives too. But in the end we really are working for the banks, and they really are big scary businesses with too much political influence and control.

 

You think the GOP gives two fucks about your constitution? Like everything else, the GOP cherry picks the parts of the constitution that serves it and ignores everything else. And your right, picking the lesser of two evils is VERY WRONG in and of itself, but not choosing is exactly what a corrupt government wants you to do. Become complacent and apathetic. I'm not trying to influence who you vote for, I am explaining the choice that lay before you. If you think the GOP is going to limit the powers of the CIA, FBI, DHS (a republican invention by the way), you're kidding yourself. That pandora's box has been opened and it's not going away. Why do think so many of us were screaming our fucking heads off about the Patriot Act? Where was the GOP, guardians of the constituion, when Bush pushed that little slight of hand through? Once that kind of power gets granted, it doesn't go away.

Listen to me very closely - NO ONE IS WORSE THAN BUSH. All of this cluster fuck leads straight to that mess. All of this police state shit is his legacy. Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld - Traitors and War Criminals of Hitler and Stalinesque proportions. Why all four of these fuckers' heads aren't on pikes, rotting in the sun, is an absolute mystery to me.

 

Omg! I wish you people could listen before drawing assumptions, read the OP before automatically assuming I support the GOP.I DO NOT SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT!!! Why can't you liberals and democrats get it through your thick skull, that everything is not okay. As much as you'd like to pretend Obama is doing the right thing for "the people," he's not. Freedom doesn't come from a large over blown government, with over-extending military powers. I did say Bush was better than Obama, and I believe it. Bush may have signed the patriot act, but Obama signed the NDAA, the NDRP, HR 347 and, the FAA reauthorization act, all of which impose on our constitutional rights. So no, Obama isn't some hero, and it would be much more mature of you if we could discuss these things without the left right paradox. Because I'm speaking to you from outside the matrix.

 

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Sorry but your OP is rambling and as someone else pointed out rather incoherent and it leaves me with more questions than answers.

You claim your intent is to - explain to you my opinion on communism, and why (I think) I would never work

But you don’t seem to have any argument beyond – ‘I don’t like it because I don’t and I don’t think I would work because I don’t think it would’

I get the feeling that you seem to see anything leftwing with communism or the slippery slope to communism. With your references to communist/socialist and a true capitalist society.

But if so your references seem strange in that context – I mean you mention ‘Big Brother’ a reference to the book 1984 written by George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair) a life-long socialist. You use as your avatar the V for Vendetta mask a graphic novel written by a leftwing anarchist as an attack on the right wing neoliberalism of Thatcherism.

Anyway what is a true capitalist society how would you define it?

Localism fine up to a point but only up to a point, for example someone – say X – lives in a prosperous area with high employment, they might ‘evaluate’ and find little reason to give since there are few disadvantaged. But only a few miles away their could be a town with high unemployment with many people in hardship but since X doesn’t live there, doesn’t go there and so cannot ‘evaluate’ that towns needs they have to suffer hardship.

If you have a national scheme with the duty, time, and knowledge to ‘evaluate’ things nationally if can move resources to those places where it is most needed.

In your context how do you define ‘freedom’ and ‘liberty’?

The original political system wealth was the main factor in if you could vote or hold office in most places only 10% of the population could vote and even fewer people than that could hold office, because you need to be rich to hold such offices.

As i believe i've pointed out to you before

You I believe come from New York well this is something on the New York Constitution of 1777 –

“It retained provisions from the colonial charter such as the substantial property qualification for voting and the ability of the governor to prorogue the legislature. This imbalance of power between the branches of state government kept the elite firmly in control, and disenfranchised the majority of the male New York population” (wiki)

But only because the French king sent them helped. It is very likely that without the French navy and other help the colonists would have lost. The French government at the time was an absolute monarchy, so you could say that the founding of the US only came about due to tyranny.

Try reading – The Decline and Fall of the America Empire: Part One 1945-2011
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/s...?t=435209&f=36

Fall in top rate tax
1945 - 94%
1970 – 70%
1982 - 50%
1990 - 28%
2010 – 33%


Rise in top levels of pay
In the 1950’s CEO pay was 25-50 times that of an average worker that has risen to 300-500 times by 2007.
A bigger gap than any other developed nation.

Trade deficit
1960 – Trade surplus of 3.5 billion
2008 – Trade deficit of 690 billion
(The last time the US posted a trade surplus was in 1975)

Decline in manufacturing
1965 - Manufacturing accounted for 53% of the US’s economy.
2004 – It accounted for 9%
The Economist (10/1/2005) stated: “For the first time since the industrial revolution, fewer than 10% of American workers are now employed in manufacturing.”

And try reading - Free market = Plutocratic Tyranny
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/s...?t=353336&f=36

 

The original patriot act was the gateway to all of this Big Brother legislation that you now rightly fear. Bush set the precedence, the template, after 9/11 for this domestic spying network, this assault on liberty. That instantly became an institution - this kind of thing always does, and once it's here, it's here to stay. Once the justification is accepted (war on terrorism), there's no going back. You have Bush to thank for that. The left - right paradox is a factor in this discussion. Let me remind you that Obama was one of the few senators that did not support the invasion of IRAQ, a huge contributor to that national debt clock of yours.

I watched in horror as I saw fascism rear it's ugly head in the country after 9/11. For the first time in my life, I experienced what it was like to see a terrible crime being committed by this government and to actually feel fear and intimidation by people who didn't appreciate me pointing it out. Being called a traitor for questioning the motives of a war that made absolutely no sense. I STILL know people who believe that we invaded IRAQ because of 9/11, and don't see any problem with an administration deliberately misleading congress and the citizens of this nation into the invasion of a sovereign nation under deliberately false pretenses.

It astounds me how quickly and eagerly we, as a nation, want to forget and overlook this dark path we've taken. it mystifies me how we, as a nation, are so eager to overlook the chain of events that led us to the place we currently find ourselves. There IS a power struggle going on just beneath the surface of this government and it's not being addressed explicitly, but rather symbolically. Why? Because if people truly understood what was at stake, there would be civil unrest beyond anything this nation has experienced since its birth.

There's so much more here than meets the eye. Remember that I said that.

 

Is communism still even an issue? The ussr failed. Castro is going to die soon. China isn't Communist so much anymore as some weird totalitarian capitalist hybrid nation. North Korea still practices communism but I don't think they're winning any hearts and minds with their regime.

Didn't the red scare end in the 80s? So why do people still talk of communism as if it's a threat?