More ISKCON wierdness

What have we here?
One of the more recent ISKCON 'gurus' to fall down - here in Srila Prabhupada's private rooms at Bhaktivedanta Manor, England, pretending to be Harry Potter.
BTW- By 'fall down', I don't mean he fell off his broomstick.

 

this may not actually be a devotional goal but it does appear he has attained some mystic siddhis in his being able to fly which i think of itself quite incredible

 

That's great...who is it?

 

It is Vipramukhya Swami, now Vipramukhya Das.

 

Here he is again - levitating now.

 

Hilarious !
Saibaba along with this guy should be ordained as the official jestors of Hinduism

 

Lol.

Yes - only this one's now had to give up his position as a guru - he is no longer even swami. I believe he actually resigned, and has since married.
This all serves to highlight the mess ISKCON have got into since Srila Prabhupada's departure. They now have over 70 initiating 'gurus' world wide, and many have gone off the rails.
I am indebted to the Iskcon Reform Movement for these photos.

 

Yes - this is the famous digital siddhi - as we know, by this siddhi the dead Archaraya can be made to speak, never mind a bit of broomstick flying

 

I have no complaint against siddhis. Many great masters use them for the benefit of all. I don't care for them being made parlor tricks though.

As for Sai Baba, I resent him being termed a jester. His siddhis are never showing off, he gives things to people, inspires them spiritually. Even if you don't believe he is a legitimate Guru, there are plenty of Sai devotees who are very very good people.

 

::nods:: Same with ISKCON

 

The rascals always get the attention, no matter what faith or society, and the good folks remain in the background.

 

::nods:: I def. agree.

 

Sai Baba is alleged to have abused sexually many young male devotees.
I have very little time or respect for him anyway, as he relies on obvious trickery to attract followers.

 

No doubt there are good people in ISKCON. But where the likes of this guy are concerned, just imagine the effect this kind of constant falling of 'gurus' must have on the disciples. One is supposed to see the guru as 'as good as God', it must be a great disillusionment when the person goes off the rails.
Actually, I'm not saying Vipramukhya Das is 'bad' - just a bit daft - and certainly not very advanced spiritually. Yet he was voted in as a guru by Iskcon's GBC.

Here is an extract from his resignation letter - note he'd been acting as guru for 16 years prior to this; in his favour, at least he's had the decency to admit his errors - to come clean.

"Regretfully, I also confess that seeking some kind of recourse and companionship, I was not always able to strictlyfollow the regulative principles, though I was not able to discuss this with anyone except one kind devotee who has been a true friend."

"It is only that I am simply unable to continue living the external show of being the advanced devotee that I am not. I don't think that would be beneficial either to you or to me. [...] However, it would be cruel and unfair if I were to falsely mislead you into believing that I am in some way qualified or capable to act as your true spiritual master. I am not."

"There are advanced devotees in ISKCON, and it is my duty to request those who have accepted guidance and shelter under me to take shelter of other senior devotees within ISKCON, and if in doubt to consult your local GBC representative."

 

It is a disillusionment when this happens...my best ISKCON friend's guru blooped and came clean in much the same way two years or so ago...but the damage was done and my friend is alienated and somewhat embittered, though not functionally damaged because he is a strong individual with an established sense of personal direction...others have not been not nearly so lucky, some have been through two or three "gurus".

The nicest and seemingly most spiritually-situated ISKCON devotees I know are in or have come from the humble ranks of the troops...not at all ambitious for a big position, or if they do find themselves evolving into a leadership role, it has come about because others have recognized their spiritual qualities.

I base my spiritual life on the Vaisnava tradition that Srila Prabhupada brought to the west, but hopefully also see things in a clear, honest, and realistic light...ISKCON is beginning to emerge from the post-SP era of extreme damage but is facing difficult philosophical choices and their practical application in the area of real and workable spiritual leadership. There's still plenty of divisive and often bitter controversy...cruise the net for Hare Krishna discussion boards, it's not hard to find. I won't make my own feelings and opinions public other than to say that the current situation just makes me sad.

Regarding Sai Baba, he's like Rajneesh...definitely a showman of dubious credentials and very questionable behavior...off my radar screen, anyway.

Srila Prabhupada considered the attainment of siddhis as a potential impediment on the path to real bhakti and disapproved of the public exhibition of siddhis...he spent his first seventy years in a pre-globalized India and such sights were commonplace.

When asked if he could perform miracles, SP would indicate that his disciples and books were his miracles.

 

Spook - as one who remembers what ISKCON was like back in Srila Prabhupada's time, I too regret all that has happened since his departure. Also, I know several casualties of false 'gurus'.

I don't know what the answer is for ISKCON. I hope though that things are now getting better as you suggest.
I can also understand how those 'in the ranks' may often be the most sincere - myself, I am a bit suspicious of those who want to put their own person forward as candidates to be guru.
In fairness to people like Vipramukhya, it must be very hard to maintain the rigid discipline required - on the other side, he must for many years have known he was misleading people into thinking he was a pure devotee.

The case of Sai Baba is very different. Some say 'well, he's leading people to God, so what does it matter if he's a bit whacky?' But I'm afraid it goes beyond that to serious allegations of sexual abuse, and even implication in a murder. I'm not really convinced he is leading people to God. He may be leading them into delusion.

I'm sorry if this offends Baba's followers, but so much has come out, and continues to come out, that it seems very likely to me there must be something behind the allegations.

Nor do I intend to offend followers of Krishna Consciousness. The misdeeds of Vipramukhya are very mild in comparison to the allegations against Baba, although back in the 80's there was some criminal element among the ISKCON gurus.
I wonder what Srila Prabhupada would make of it all if he were to return?

 

Bill...to put it plainly, some really horrible shit has happened in ISKCON in the years since SP's passing. If SP were here now, the same material would hit the fan in a big way...he was known for his fiery temper and hard dealings with disciples whose serious misdeeds came to his attention, but then again was known for being very compassionate with those fallen as well...perhaps a little too liberally at times. He didn't want to lose anyone to "maya" and would always give second, third, fourth chances...

Regarding Sai Baba, I've heard the same stories. Where there's smoke there's fire. He and Rajneesh just smack...past tense for Rajneesh... too much of what SP outspokenly called "bogus gurus".

In the case of Vipramukhya, yes, maintaining a facade like that for many years must be extremely difficult, even if one is trying to act in a sincere way. Also, a guru, qualified or not, supposedly gets the sinful reactions or bad karma of those he initiates...no wonder so many crashed and burned spectacularly.

 

I think you're right that Srila Prabhupada would be outraged at some of what has gone on.


With Sai Baba, one of the things that gets me is that some followers even acknowledge that there is substance in the allegations against him, but still maintain that he is genuine and doing Divine work. To me, that seems a dangerous thing.

 

These are allegations very easily made, virtually impossible to disprove.

I have personally spent a lot of time in his presence and can attest to the benign power of his presence.

The obvious trickery of Sai Baba is not very different from the obvious trickery of Krishna, lifting mountains and dancing on snakes to attract followers. But what he speaks is pure and beautiful vedanta.

I don't care to argue about it, you are entitled to your opinions. I wish you would reserve judgement until you have more direct experience.

 

Oh, the irony.