Lesbians not taken seriously?

You're probably thinking "how could lesbians not be taken seriously? I'm a lesbian and it seems pretty serious to me!"

The Lesbian orientation is serious for those who are lesbians but I'm posing the question about society as a whole - do you think Lesbians are not taken seriously or are ignored in some ways?

I have a few reasons why I think we are sort of ignored and not taken seriously:

1. Tests done to determine once and for all if homosexuality is biological (and we all know it is anyway) has all been done on males. Why are women left out?

2. When I have found writings on homosexuality in a historical context, Lesbians are practically left out. Historians will focus exclusivley on males. Sometimes I'll find a paragraph on Sappho and that's it. It is as if gay men have a history and gay women do not.

3. Most venues catering to homosexuals are dominated by Gay men and usually are catering exclusively to Gay men. Even in large cities on any given night there is generally one place that caters exclusively to Lesbians.

4. Lesbian-themed films, whether there is sex in them or not, are ignored by the media.

Okay, I'm not looking for a separatist sort of thing in the Queer community. But I can't overlook the fact that Gays and Lesbians are two very different orientations. We do not need each other in a sexual sense, but we do in a community sense. So, I don't think there needs to be some great divide between us.

Here's my thesis: Lesbians are not taken seriously because we are not as big of a "threat" to patriarchy. Lesbians are "hot" and "sexy"; Gay men are "immoral". This is wrong. So, people focus on Gay males in history, in the media and in medical research because that is the "problem". Please don't misunderstand....I don't think Gay men or Lesbians are a problem in any way, shape, or form. I'm talking about society and the structures within it. Maybe I'm just imagining that Lesbians are sort of left out when it comes to certain things....but....what do you all think?

 

Interesting ideas. I agree with you that lesbians are not taken seriously. Actually, that's probably true of most minority sociological groups. In contrast to you, I do think that men feel threatened by lesbians, though. I'm referring to lesbians as opposed to bisexual women, who as you point out are considered to be hot.

But lesbians don't need men at all, which most men take as an affront. And note how men are often scornful of women who are very strong and independent, or who are seen as having "masculine" traits. It's as if they have a compulsion to put down women who don't need them (the men).

I'm not part of the gay community myself, and I didn't realize there was such a disparity in venues for gay men and lesbians. Could that also be because there are more gay men than gay women?

 

Not true. I've read multiple studies that were with both sexes.

In a historical context - women weren't taken seriously.

I have found this also to be false. There are plenty of lesbian exclusive clubs.

I can only think of one gay themed film at all that fared any good in the media (and I think we all know what that is). However, I can think of multiple movies where lesbian scenes have helped their fare with the audience.

Did you know that a lesbian couple can now have a baby of their own? One of the mate's egg can be turned into a sperm, and the other can be artificially inseminated with that sperm.
But science sure doesn't care about lesbians

 

The basic precept of the United States is that majority rules, yet we guarantee and always protect minority rights. This premise is the reason we have fought so many wars with the most deadly being our own civil war to end slavery.

Live and let live...which is what the founding fathers would want us to do as true Americans.

I will admit that even though being a heterosexual, the blatant, ignorant discrimination towards anyone is simply wrong!

 

Beautifully put

 

Interesting. I realize I've never seen any statistics on that. Is it true that there are more gay men than women? If so, what would explain that?

 

There are mixed results on that.
90:"Homosexuality/Heterosexuality: Concepts of Sexual Orientation" published findings of 13.95% of males and 4.25% of females having had either "extensive" or "more than incidental" homosexual experience.

90: An extensive study on sexuality in general was conducted in the United States. A significant portion of the study was geared towards homosexuality. The results found that 8.6% of women and 10.1% of men had at one point in their life experienced some form of homosexuality. Of these, 87% of women and 76% of men reported current same-sex attractions, 41% of women and 52% of men had sex with someone of the same gender, and 16% of women and 27% of men identified as LGBT.

93: Researchers Samuel and Cynthia Janus surveyed American adults aged 18 and over by distributing 4,550 questionnaires; 3,260 were returned and 2,765 were usable. The results of the cross-sectional nationwide survey stated men and women who reported frequent or ongoing homosexual experiences were 9% of men and 5% of women

source



I think male homosexuality is focused on a little more in studies, is because males are seen as less fluid in sexuality - and because male homosexuality tends to cause more social drama - and all scientists are attention whores these days.

 

You seem so determined to be hostile in this thread. What upsets you so much about it?

 

I'm not hostile at all =S
I don't see how what you quoted is hostile. =S

This thread does upset me though. In fact, this user upsets me. She's complaining that her sexual-orientation doesn't get as much attention as male-male homos - when the male-male attention is dramatic controversy.

She seems like one of those sorts've people that find problems where there are none. And those type of people always make me angry. There's enough problems in this world, no reason to go looking for them.


As far as hostile - I don't see how you can talk hostile without threats and swears and insults. =S

 

Forum Description: A place for gay women (only) to discuss any issues relating to being a lesbian.

This is a place to discuss LESBIAN issues. If it bothers you, then don't come here. It's that simple.

 

I didn't know I was in the lesbian forum - I always use the new posts feature, only check what forum it's in if I see reason to. I would say I apologize, but that's a stupid rule that I do not support in a "free speech" forum + you've been rather mean about my opinion.

Before I leave, I don't like what you implied (whether you meant the implication or not). Lesbianism doesn't bother me the least bit - I am quite a fan in fact - and a major supporter of gay rights.

 

The fact that only women can post here is not my rule. See a moderator if you have a complaint. There are other forums here that specify who can post there and who can't. Such as the Sanctuary forum for Christians only. I think if Skip had a problem with this stuff then he'd put an end to it.

I read your posts and took what you had to say into consideration. I'm glad you are a supporter of gay rights. I'm not "creating" a problem...I'm trying to figure out if one actually exists, but this is something specific to the lesbian community. It would be hard for other people to understand....just like I wouldn't lend my two cents on what it's like to be a black woman. I've always been white and I've always been gay....so my experiences come from that. You've always been how you are and have experiences in your life that relate to that. I also appreciate the research you brought into this discussion. Too bad we just have to agree to disagree.

 

I like what you said here, but I think men are intimidated by strong, independent women no matter her orientation. There are women who come across "masculine" and could very well be straight.

I think one problem is that most men see two women as "sexy" and nothing else. It's almost like those two women can't possibly be with one another for love! Like they are with each other to fulfill male fantasies.

I did a search in my state for venues for lesbians....one result came back. There are two places in my city that are "queer friendly". One is run by gay men and caters heavily to gay men....there are drag shows and condoms are handed out to everyone that comes in. Lots of straight people also come there (or maybe they're bi or bicurious, I really don't know to be honest). It is a haven for the queer community in my area, no matter your gender or orientation.

My partner lives in Boston and has told me that there is usually one lesbian function for every 10 gay functions. I just find this odd....could be the lesbian community has a harder time organizing!

 

I never said it was. However, you are the one that used the rule against me.
No mod came in here and kicked me out; you did.

Am responding to the rest of your post via PM.

 

Yes, that's what I meant. Look at someone like Hilary Clinton or Janet Reno. There's a certain faction of men that expresses virulent hatred toward these women out of all rational proportion, primarily I think because they don't conform to the men's ideas of how women should behave.

These women are strong and accomplished, characteristics that the men admire in other men. Yet they trigger very visceral reactions in certain male factions. It's mostly insecurity, I think, founded on the old belief that it's possible to build yourself up by tearing someone else down.

Real men know they have nothing to fear from strong women, no matter what her sexual orientation.

 

Women can be strong and independent without acting masculine. I consider myself an example of that.

 

I am of the opinion it really has nothing to do with being masculine or feminine or any other inane way people discriminate against one another--but more to do with being a spiritual being who is a thinking, feeling entity who should be respected simply for their individuality which is not based on any historically preconceived misconceptions.

It should be noted that we as a species, aside from obviousness of sexuality, would be extinct without the innate wisdom and compassion of women.

It should be obvious to any and everyone, that a person who thinks and acts for themselves is far more attractive than a robot.

 

Yes, exactly. I think the point being made here is that there are men who are upset by women who are strong and independent. Or by women who don't need men, i.e., lesbians.

Or by feisty old ladies ... lol

 

You forgot "horny", Karen ... strong, independent, and horny

 

Well-said, Toby.