Internet Revisionists Beware: Real Facts Being Released to Public!

If you spend anytime on the internet these days, especially around Hipforums or these sorts of forums where Christianity is discussed you will no doubt come across the fascinating Revisionists telling you all kinds of stories they have about 'Pauline Christianity' or how Gnosticism is the 'true Christianity' and all kinds of wild fables about 'Evil Constantine Mafia'.

Ultimately most of these revised accounts and claims all boil down to one particular claim: Nobody really knows who or how the Gospels or the New Testament were really written and there is no way to know or determine the accuracy.
So the idea being is to retell this enough times that it just 'becomes a given' in the minds of others.. who go and retell it as fact in another forum and so on.

So far its been a successful ruse if you go by the number of posters who will even insist outrageous claims that 'THERE IS ZERO EVIDENCE JESUS EVEN EXISTED'
or
"EVEN CHRISTIANS ADMIT MOST OF IT IS FALSE"

Astonishing!

At this point, some of them are becoming so bold with their lies that they actually think it up to the others to 'prove otherwise'.
No.

Im going to drop some evidence compiled by Dr. Simon Greenleaf and others that will explain why Christianity has always been full of people convinced they are reading and trusting in real, historical accounts.

One thing to keep in mind here: Any given piece of evidence is up for debate and not necessarily every individual peice of evidence is 'in itself' substantial.
That is not how it needs to be either. (contrary to what you will no doubt see).
Remember, in any courtroom in any fair country throughout all our history the best we ask for is 'Evidence beyond a reasonable doubt'.
Re-read that if you want.
Evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

Just finding a matching bullet doesnt 'prove anything'
Just because two witness said they saw the shooter doesnt 'prove anything'.
Just because his fingerprints match doesnt 'prove anything'.
Anyone can fairly dispute any individual point there:
Just because they 'look alike' doesnt mean it was him.
Just because its the same gun doesnt prove it was.
Just because the prints were on it doesnt mean he fired the bullet that killed.

However.. enough evidence, taken into consideration and you can eventually begin to build a case that while not 'logical objective scientific proof' becomes so convincing that it would require a far far far more unlikely explanation to be believed if it was NOT true.

So assuming we can all agree on those basic principles and we are not retarded - lets take a look at some evidence that the New Testament is a reliable and trustworthy historical document.
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One of the problems you would run into if you were to try and create fictional story and pass it off as a real historical event is that other people will have lived and written things in that real historical time and place.

I once explained this by giving an example of someone claiming that a UFO visited them and lots of their friends were there too.
Ok.
Well you could get away with that if you wrote something about it happening out of town on a farm.. and you were the only ones there.. and that your friends also moved away and lived on other farms etc.
However
If you tried to write a story saying that on Friday the 23rd, you and the towns Alderman Bob Cunningham were on 3rd St and you saw a UFO... well now you really better know that people can crosscheck that with other accounts.
They could find a newspaper report that was about 3rd Street and other people would know Bob and in fact others would even remember driving down that street.

The Gospels are more like the latter example.
They use many specific place names (yes, even names of streets and parks) and they also refer to specific pubically recognised people.
They refer to times and dates as well.
They also refer to public events.
Now you have to realise that is major. IF these people were making up stories (and considering they were unpopular stories with some) then it would be VERY EASY to catch them out on this.

Even further to this - it would also be expected that there would be some external sources who observed these events.
Example: If the Book of Acts says that there were many people believing that Jesus was a King and treating him as God... then there would then figure that someone else, somewhere else might mention this?

Here is a list of commonly refered to 'Secular' or 'external' historical references.
Remember, we are not asking for someone like Celsus to being 'proving' Jesus is God or even be perfectly accurate either.
We are noting that someone outside Chistianity is confirming that there most definately people called Christians who were following some books they called Gospels.
What we do see is real historical evidence that, at the very least there were Gospels and Christians (put aside anything else).
Thats just an example but here are more:


Secular historians and others from antiquity attest to the historical reality of Jesus Christ.

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JOSEPHUS: 37-101 A.D.​

Josephus was born in Jerusalem only four years after Jesus' crucifixion. He was an eyewitness to much of what he recorded in the first century A.D. Josephus mentions many events and people from the Gospels. Josephus was an Orthodox Jew who was commissioned by the Romans to write a history of the Jewish people and Rome up until that point.​

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Mentions Jesus: Antiquities, Book 18, ch. 3, par. 3.​

Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. ​

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Mentions John the Baptist and Herod: Antiquities, Book 18, ch. 5, par. 2​

"Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod's army came from God, and that very justly, as a punishment of what he did against John, that was called the Baptist: for Herod slew him, who was a good man, and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another, and piety towards God, and so to come to baptism; for that the washing [with water] would be acceptable to him, if they made use of it, not in order to the putting away [or the remission] of some sins [only], but for the purification of the body; supposing still that the soul was thoroughly purified beforehand by righteousness." ​

Mentions James, the half-brother of Jesus: Antiquities, Book20, ch. 19.​

"Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done." ​

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TACITUS: 55-117 A.D.
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Cornelius Tactitus is regarded as the greatest historian of ancient Rome. Writing on the reign of Nero, Tacitus alludes to the death of Christ and to the existence of Christians in Rome.
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"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular."
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PLINY THE YOUNGER: 112 A.D.
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Governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor, Pliny wrote a letter to the Emperor Trajan regarding how to deal with Christians who worship Christ. These letters concern an episode which marks the first time the Roman government recognized Christianity as a religion separate from Judaism, and sets a precedent for the massive persecution of Christians that takes place in the second and third centuries.
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"They (the Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food—but food of an ordinary and innocent kind."
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BABYLONIAN TALMUD:Completed in the 6th Century A.D.
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The Babylonian Talmud is a Rabbinic commentary on the Jewish scriptures (Tanach: Old Testament). They are a look into what a hostile source was saying about Jesus. They couldn't deny his miracles so they claim that it was sorcery rather than admit to what was a known fact. They also admit that Yeshu (Hebrew for Jesus) was hanged (Crucified: Luke 23:39, Galatians 3:13).
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"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery (an admission of his miracles) and enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf." But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover!"
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The Babylonian Talmud, vol. III, Sanhedrin 43a.
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LUCIAN:120-180 A.D.
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A Greek satirist that spoke scornfully of Christ and Christians, affirming that they were real and historical people, never saying that they were fictional characters.
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"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day—the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account....You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property."
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Lucian, The Death of Peregrine. 11-13.
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LETTER OF MARA BARSARAPION:73 A.D.
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Mara Bar-Serapion was a Syrian who lived in the first century A.D. He wrote a letter to his son Serapion that mentions the Jews who killed their King. The letter is now in the possession of the British Museum.
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"What benefit did the Athenians obtain by putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as judgment for their crime. Or, the people of Samos for burning Pythagoras? In one moment their country was covered with sand. Or the Jews by murdering their wise king?...After that their kingdom was abolished. God rightly avenged these men...The wise king...Lived on in the teachings he enacted."
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Thallus:52 A.D
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One of the first secular writers that mentioned Christ. Thallus wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to his own time. Unfortunately, his writings are only found as citations by others. Julius Africanus, a Christian who wrote about AD 221 mentioned Thallus' account of an eclipse of the sun (Luke 23:44-45).
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"On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun."
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Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1.
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PHLEGON: 1st Century​

A secular historian wrote a history named, "Chronicles." This original work has been lost, Julius Africanus preserved a small fragment in his writings. Phlegon mentions the eclipse (Matthew 27:45) during the crucifixion of Jesus.​

"During the time of Tiberius Caesar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the full moon."​

Africanus, Chronography, 18:1.​

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SUETONIUS:(69-140 A.D.) ​

A Roman historian and annalist of the Imperial House under the Emperor Hadrian. He refers to Christ and Christians and the "disturbances" caused by them, namely not worshipping idols and loving all, including their tormentors.​

"Because the Jews at Rome caused constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Christ], he [Claudius] expelled them from the city [Rome]." Acts 18:2, which took place in 49 A.D.​

Life of Claudius, 25:4.​

In another work Suetonius wrote about the the fire which devastated Rome in 64 A.D. under the reign of Nero. Nero blamed the Christians and exacted a heavy punishment upon them, among them covering them with pitch and burning them alive in his gardens.​

"Nero inflicted punishment on the Christians, a sect given to a new and mischievous religious belief." ​

Lives of the Caesars, 26.2 ​

 

Just to have to fun you should check what david Icke wrote about the writers of the new testament. You would be amazed.
I don't say I think so or so... I just say you should check

 

CELSUS:2nd Century​

Criticizes the Gospels, unknowingly reinforces the authors and the content, he alludes to 80 different quotes in the Bible. Admits that the miracles of Jesus were generally believed in the 2nd century.​

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JULIAN THE APOSTATE: 332-363 A.D.​

Emperor of Rome mentions the Gospels, miracles and other facts about Jesus. Julian had struggled to end the power of Christians in the Roman Empire. Since the day fifty years earlier that Constantine conquered in the sign of the cross, Christian influence had steadily grown. As Julian lay dying from a mortal wound he made the following remark:​

"As he bled, the dying emperor groaned, "You have conquered, O Galilean," referring to Jesus Christ. ​

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CLEMENT OF ROME: 100 A.D. ​

Clement affirms the Resurrection, Gospels and that Jesus was sent to earth by God to take away our sins.​

"Clement was the fourth bishop of Rome, the first being Peter. Did he know Peter and Paul? It is completely possible that those two Spirit-filled men taught him. Clement even wrote a letter to the Corinthian church that echoed the teachings of the apostles."​

 

Ignatius of Antioch:50-107 A.D.
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Disciple of the apostles Peter, Paul, and John, who was martyred for his faith in Jesus. He was obviously convinced that Jesus really had lived and that Jesus was all that the apostles has said He was.
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"...nearness to the sword is nearness to God; to be among the wild beasts is to be in the arms of God; only let it be in the name of Jesus Christ. I endure all things that I may suffer together with him, since he who became perfect man strengthens me...We have not only to be called Christians, but to be Christians."
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While the emperor Trajan was on a visit to Asia Minor, he arrested Ignatius. When the bishop confessed his faith in Christ, the Emperor sent him in chains to Rome to die. He was hustled to the arena at once and thrown to two fierce lions who immediately devoured him.​

 

QUADRATUS:125 A.D.
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Bishop of Athens and a disciple of the apostles. Church historian Eusebius has preserved the only work that we have from Quadratus.
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"The deeds of our Saviour were always before you, for they were true miracles; those that were healed, those that were raised from the dead, who were seen, not only when healed and when raised, but were always present. They remained living a long time, not only whilst our Lord was on earth, but likewise when he had left the earth. So that some of them have also lived in our times."
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Eusebius, IV, III
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EPISTLE OF BARNABAS:130-38 A.D.
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Mentions the Resurrection, miracles, content of the Gospels and the crucifixion of Jesus.
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Check my post Erasmus70 ;-)

 

ARISTIDES: 138-161 A.D.
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Aristides was a second-century Christian believer and philosopher from Athens. This portion of his defense of Christianity was addressed to the Roman Emperor Antonius Pius, who reigned from 138-161 A.D.
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"The Son of the most high God, revealed by the Holy Spirit, descended from heaven, born of a Hebrew Virgin. His flesh he received from the Virgin, and he revealed himself in the human nature as the Son of God. In his goodness which brought the glad tidings, he has won the whole world by his life-giving preaching...He selected twelve apostles and taught the whole world by his mediatorial, light-giving truth. And he was crucified, being pierced with nails by the Jews; and he rose from the dead and ascended to heaven. He sent the apostles into all the world and instructed all by divine miracles full of wisdom. Their preaching bears blossoms and fruits to this day, and calls the whole world to illumination."
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Carey, "Aristides," 68.
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JUSTIN MARTYR: 106-167 A.D.
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Justin Martyr is regarded as one of the greatest early Christian apologists. He was born around 100 A.D and was beheaded for his faith in Jesus in 167 A.D. He mentions as facts many things about Jesus and Christianity, such as: The Magi (wise men who brought gifts from Arabia), King Herod, His crucifixion, His garments parted among the Roman soldiers, the apostles leaving him on the night of his arrest, his fulfilled prophecies, His resurrection and His ascending into heaven among many others. These quotes can be found in his debate with Trypho the Jew.​

 

HEGESIPPUS:2 Century
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Eusebius draws the conclusion that Hegesippus was a Jew that wrote five books called, "Memoirs." Only fragments remain of his original work in the writings of Eusebius. They show that Hegesippus traveled extensively trying to determine if the stories of Jesus and the apostles were true. He found that they they were accurate, even in the troubled church in Corinth.
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"The Corinthian church continued in the true doctrine until Primus became bishop. I mixed with them on my voyage to Rome and spent several days with the Corinthians, during which we were refreshed with the true doctrine. On arrival at Rome I pieced together the succession down to Anicetus, whose deacon was Eleutherus, Anicetus being succeeded by Soter and he by Eleutherus. In every line of bishops and in every city things accord with the preaching of the Law, the Prophets, and the Lord."
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Eusebius, The History of the Church, 9.22.2.
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TRAJAN: 53-117 A.D.
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Trajan is a Roman Emperor who wrote a letter [see letter] in response to the Governor of Asia Minor, Pliny the Younger. Pliny needed advice in dealing with "Christians" who renounced their belief in Jesus due to fear of torture and execution.
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MACROBIUS: 4th-5th Century
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Pascal (Pensees) mentions a quote of Augustus Caesar as an evidence to the murder of the 7-20 male babies (this is based on the population of Bethlehem in 4-6 B.C., which was 700-1,000 people) by King Herod in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:16).
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King Herod heard that a king was to be born and his fear and mental instability caused him to kill these male children under two years of age. King Herod killed his Wife, mother in law, and three sons. This is in character with his life of murder and paranoia. King Herod's reign was described by his enemies as, "He stole to the throne like a fox, ruled like a tiger, and died like a dog."
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Saturnalia, lib. 2, ch.4.
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HADRIAN: 106-167 A.D
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Justin Martyr quotes this Roman Emperor's letter to Minucius Fundanus, proconsul of Asia Minor. This letter deals with accusations from pagans against the Christians.
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"I have received the letter addressed to me by your predecessor Serenius Granianus, a most illustrious man; and this communication I am unwilling to pass over in silence, lest innocent persons be disturbed, and occasion be given to the informers for practicing villainy. Accordingly, if the inhabitants of your province will so far sustain this petition of theirs as to accuse the Christians in some court of law, I do not prohibit them from doing so. But I will not suffer them to make use of mere entreaties and outcries. For it is far more just, if any one desires to make an accusation, that you give judgment upon it. If, therefore, any one makes the accusation, and furnishes proof that the said men do anything contrary to the laws, you shall adjudge punishments in proportion to the offences. And this, by Hercules; you shall give special heed to, that if any man shall, through mere calumny, bring an accusation against any of these persons, you shall award to him more severe punishments in proportion to his wickedness."
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Justin Martyr, The First Apology, Chapters, 68-69.
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Still not done?

 

JUVENAL: 55 AD-127 AD
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Juvenal makes a reference of the tortures of Christians by Nero in Rome.
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"But just describe Tigellinus and you will blaze amid those faggots in which men, with their throats tightly gripped, stand and burn and smoke, and you trace a broad furrow through the middle of the arena."
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Satires, 1, lines 147-157.
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SENECA:3 B.C.-65 A.D
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Seneca mentions the cruelties that Nero imposes upon Christians.
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"The other kind of evil comes, so to speak, in the form of a huge parade. Surrounding it is a retinue of swords and fire and chains and a mob of beasts to be let loose upon the disemboweled entrails of men. Picture to yourself under his head the prison, the cross, the rack, the hook, and the stake which they drive straight through a man until it protrudes from his throat. Think of human limbs torn apart by chariots driven in opposite directions, of the terrible shirt smeared and interwoven with inflammable materials, and of all the other contrivances devised by cruelty, in addition to those which I have mentioned!"
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Epistulae Morales, Epistle 14, "On the Reasons for Withdrawing from the World."
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