interesting E mail i recieved concerning the 2007 gathering..

Subject: discrepancies Fw: USFS 2007 Rainbow

This one to me the next one is to you both from ****-
Can you explain the discrepancies?

Then i've enclosed ****’s rendition of the phone
conversation and one can see the purpose-s- of the
flight changes.

Were the two post dated the 16th both posted then? Was
the change made for a Public posting? Who is
orchestrating what?


****,

Thank you for offering to do some advance scouting for
the 2007 Gathering. I understand that you've reserved
flights to arrive in dallas nov 16th and then to
proceed to Arkansas and Oklahoma making a loop of the
various potential Forest sites. I understand that you
are inviting others to join you on this Scouting
expedition.


The Under Secretary of Agriculture for Natural
Resources, who oversees the USFS, would like to
facilitate a peaceful Gathering and has offered the
following:


The USFS is in the process of identifying six
potential sites for the 2007 Rainbow gatherings with 2
sites to be identified in TX, AR & OK for a total of 6
potential sites. Each site identified by USFS is
supposed to contain a large meadow, water, springs
(for drinking water), forest cover fringing the meadow
for camping and dead & down wood for campfires. They
are also supposed to ID an adjacent meadow or
appropriate site for parking cars at least 1 mile from
Main Meadow.


USFS will verify that each potential site has no T&E,
Cultural or other conflicts that would prevent USFS
from issuing a permit for a large non-commercial group
gathering.


USFS will provide the name and contact info for a USFS
Resource person at each National Forest who will be
available to assist you and other Scouts.


USFS would like Rainbow Scouts to visit the sites
they've located during the Fall of 2007 to:

A. Reserve one or more sites as potential locations
for the 2007 National Gathering; and/or

B. Tell the USFS that none of the sites meets Rainbow
criteria and to suggest one or more sites that would,
and that Family would like to reserve for summer of
2007.


USFS has agreed that they will not target or prosecute
anyone who comes to them in advance to help plan an
appropriate site.


In consideration of Family visiting and reserving
sites in advance, the Under Secretary is seriously
considering appointing a resource or recreation
forester as Incident Commander.


Once 1 - 3 sites have been reserved, should Family
choose to set up seed camp on any one of them, the
USFS resource team will work with Family to define the
operating plan; and the 2007 USFS Incident Commander
will issue and personally sign the non-commercial
group use permit as the "contact person," which will
give the Permit legal effect.


All further discussions with the USFS will take place
on the Site during the Gathering in open council.


Separately, USFS asked that Family suggest USFS staff
who are now stationed in the AR/OK/TX region with whom
we have had positive relations and with whom we'd like
to work so USFS can inquire to see if they'd like to
be part of the Incident Command team for the 007
Gathering.


Peace & Light,

****

 

>>>>>,
>
>
>
> Thank you for offering to do some advance scouting
> for the 2007 Gathering. I understand that you've
> reserved flights to arrive in Oklahoma City on
> November 1 st and then to proceed to Arkansas and
> then down to Texas making a loop of the various
> potential Forest sites. I understand that you are
> inviting others to join you on this Scouting
> expedition.
>
>
>
> The Under Secretary of Agriculture for Natural
> Resources, who oversees the USFS, would like to
> facilitate a peaceful Gathering and has offered the
> following:
>
>
>
> The USFS is in the process of identifying six
> potential sites for the 2007 Rainbow gatherings with
> 2 sites to be identified in TX, AR & OK for a total
> of 6 potential sites. Each site identified by USFS
> is supposed to contain a large meadow, water,
> springs (for drinking water), forest cover fringing
> the meadow for camping and dead & down wood for
> campfires. They are also supposed to ID an adjacent
> meadow or appropriate site for parking cars at least
> 1 mile from Main Meadow.
>
>
>
> USFS will verify that each potential site has no
> T&E, Cultural or other conflicts that would prevent
> USFS from issuing a permit for a large
> non-commercial group gathering.
>
>
>
> USFS will provide the name and contact info for a
> USFS Resource person at each National Forest who
> will be available to assist you and other Scouts.
>
>
>
> USFS would like Rainbow Scouts to visit the sites
> they've located during the Fall of 2007 to:
>
> A. Reserve one or more sites as potential locations
> for the 2007 National Gathering; and/or
>
> B. Tell the USFS that none of the sites meets
> Rainbow criteria and to suggest one or more sites
> that would, and that Family would like to reserve
> for summer of 2007.
>
>
>
> USFS has agreed that they will not target or
> prosecute anyone who comes to them in advance to
> help plan an appropriate site.
>
>
>
> In consideration of Family visiting and reserving
> sites in advance, the Under Secretary is seriously
> considering appointing a resource or recreation
> forester as Incident Commander.
>
>
>
> Once 1 - 3 sites have been reserved, should Family
> choose to set up seed camp on any one of them, the
> USFS resource team will work with Family to define
> the operating plan; and the 2007 USFS Incident
> Commander will issue and personally sign the
> non-commercial group use permit as the "contact
> person," which will give the Permit legal effect.
>
>
>
> All further discussions with the USFS will take
> place on the Site during the Gathering in open
> council.
>
>
>
> Separately, USFS asked that Family suggest USFS
> staff who are now stationed in the AR/OK/TX region
> with whom we have had positive relations and with
> whom we'd like to work so USFS can inquire to see if
> they'd like to be part of the Incident Command team
> for the 007 Gathering.
>
>
>
> Peace & Light,
>
>
>
> >>>>

 

9:07am
just got off the phone with **** ****, **** ****,
**** *****, & ******* ****
******* has been going to gatherings since she was 3
& has volunteered to help with this advance scouting
mission
we started at 8:41 am & were off by 9ish
we traded contact info
so they could mail & email us the info packets on the
six sites
the forest supervisors have put together

we said we'd look them over & contact the forest sups
who might hand us off to district rangers
by phone before we go to save time on the ground
scouting

we then briefly talked about sites
apparently the word from the 3 forest supervisors
is that 5 of the 6 sites will fulfill all our criteria
but for parking
but they feel will work with parking along the road
one of these sites is the original texas site
the sixth site would fulfill all of our criteria
& is in arkansas...

they suggested a conference call with the forest
supervisors next week

we extended invitations to **** & **** to
come or send a representative
to the thanksgiving council on the friday
to explain for themselves on how the see this
new arrangement working
their response was if we thought it might be helpful
& not have a negative effect on all this
& i said it would be good to here it from them
take some of the pressure off the scouts having to
explain
their position/ initiatives...as well as give any
interested parties
a head up to come to the thanksgiving council
& they asked to be notified where
when the site for the council is determined
i said that it could be anywhere from austin
to okl. or ark. & one of the possiblities is
that it could be at one of these 6 sites...

brought up the idea of there being
another informal information sharing
meeting with **** **** in a few months in the
gathering bioregion
like the one held in the bay area before the
california gathering
& we could talk about this more & firm up a place
/time
at the thanksgiving council...
they sounded open to this

then we hung up

blessings all
****

--
stay tuned
fine tuned
_______________________________________________________________


i havent even read it thru,,, but i know who it came from,, it is reputable..

love n light..

 

wow..wait..what???
the fs is issuing and signing the permit themselves?

wow that was interesting
so..that means no harrassment over failure to sign?

wow

 

i dunno man i aint read it thru yet,, just came down from the cabin to check my e mail an there it was..

as i stated before i know well one of the parties involved and believe him to be honest and truthfull..

if yer at thanksgiving council im sure youll meet him if you dont already know him...

love n light

 

well..if i read it right...they want to appoint a resource guy..not leo as incident commandeer
then have him sign the permit for us therefore making it a legaly permitted gathering..but the permit signed by them not us
think they learned from colorado?
damn..wondering what it all means but sure is interesting
wish i could make council
this could be interesting

 

yeah dilligaf just read it and agrees,, she also says they seem to want to get it agreed upon and signed ASAP.(wich we all know will cause a bitch fest at council)
as to not have any problems with seed camps etc...

 

well..what i read it as was that they'd like it narrowed down to 3 or so potential sites, or dismiss them all as unusable asap
i dont doubt there will be some things still causing issues, but seems like theyre really trying to bend over backwards to help make it go smoother so we dont have a repeat of what happened in colorado & west virginia

uf they stick to what they outlined here..it could be a whole new ballgame..i was worried about goin back to texas but now i'm excited

 

after last year,, an talkin to some of the kidz that were there,,(one of whom lost 2 front teeth by the LEO'S),, i was wondering whether wed go at all..

but if this plays out,we will be there with bells on...

so if the U.S.F.S. signs the permit,,can they be held liable for accidents an such just as we would be??

 

well, that was always the fear of signing a permit
but as far as i know it never became an issue
theres accidents at every gathering permitted or not but i dont think theres ever been any kind of lawsuites
i would hate to see it become something like now we can sue them for every lil broken bone..
after all throughout the years noones been sued over deaths injuries & other accidents either because they didnt wanjt to sue familily or just didnt think they could sue since there were no real organizers or responcible parties
id really hate to see someone with the attitude tht they desserve it for being fs
after all it seems they want to switch from having leo's to resource managemment personell in charge of dealling with the gatherings...as it should be
and all the resource folks i know are really decent ppl in it for all the right reasons unlike the leo's
maybe we could try to reach a consensus with them that gatherings are an at your own risk thing & we wont sue..ofcourse though consensus is only as good as the commitment of the individuals to live up to it

 

Wow... all this is so weird. So, because of the situations in the past 2 gatherings, they're going to sign a permit, huh.... You, know I heard rumors from some elders in Colorado that the next gathering could be in or around Texas, but I didnt really pay much mind to it. I would love for the 07 gathering to be close around to where Im at, since Im going to school, Im afraid I might miss out. I kinda worry about it though. Texas is a really scary place unless youre south of Austin.

 

Yea! People I can talk to! I caught all this on AGR and got a shorter version of the same e-mails last night. JuJu is gonna freak when he hears about this FS stuff, he's pulling a full weekend in Austin. I won't post much on AGR cuz I'm trying to stay out of the politics there but this is too much. the FS signing the permit can't be good; folks are going to wind up strangled in loopholes somewhere. Checking out FS proposed sites is okay but FS signing means FS gets far too much power. I don't trust them & I never will, their own people made sure of that. The command team was carrying BAFT handbooks as far back as '96; the same handbook used for decisions made at Waco & that worries me.

As far as TGC goes, everyone who can't make it is welcome to send any written input with us as long as TGC is in Austin & since no one I know has called to say different I'm guessing that it is. we won't be sticking around for the 'fireworks' but we do want to spend TG with Family.

And remember everyone, if Kinky Friedman gets elected governor, it could be more interesting than anyone ever thought to have a TX Gathering...What exactly would happen if the state refused to play the fed game??????

Cinnamon

 

at a viceral level , i find all this nauseating . however , dew to a delicate condidion of late , im prone to get gagging . one can only hope that since the 'fix' is in . [yuck ] , there will be less bad ends n other such collateral dammage .... and that what needs to get done reifys .

 

If they stick to the letter of the email that they sent...then it's all good (at least in comparson to expectations). I say we should go out of or way to let their proposal take place. This is a big year coming up, it could go either way. All the more reason to give them a chance to keep their word.

 

They've been given chances to keep their word before & haven't...why should we believe them now....especially if the choices are limited to the sites where the FS wants us to be & their people are signing the permit?

Sound like a trap to me....really don't want to see another Gathering where the local cops are taking pot-shots at the hippies

 

looks like another national ill be avoiding .....ark .sounds ok , but , unless there was a big somthing to gain , i can see no point in even steaping one foot in tex .

 

Feddie Fest 2007, sponsored by the United States Department of Agriculture.

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that if the the Forest Service picks a site, writes a permit and signs that same permit, then the USFS is hosting the gathering. I think the feds are trying to exert themselves to where they are driving the decision making process. OK, so they give us six sites and even leave it open for us to reject all six, but still the feds are in control of the whole process of scouting.

 

i read this as 1 we have full controll of what site we choose..2 they will not seek to harrass or ticket anyone suggesting other sites 3 all decisions our in the hands of council 4 we can choose the fs reps we feel confy working with

how could that be more fair on theyre part?
if they stick to this plan it could be a whole new erra of cooperation instead of conflict
assumming its a trick and a trap only puts us in the possition of instigatingf further conflicts

if things dont work out the way they claim here, let it be theyre fault not ours... i think we should proceed as if they mean what they say.. and hold them to theyre word and not just assume its a trap simply based on predjudices

 

It's not all a matter of prejudice, Soaring Eagle (tho it is hard not to be prejudice after what we went thru at MO'96) There is no stipulation saying that if Family doesn't like any of the FS sites that we can choose our own as long as there's no endangered species, ect for our choosen site

And the big worry; an FS rep signing the permit...that alone gives them way too much power. What if the FS permit signer decided to cancel the permit at the last minute? And that's only one problem that could happen.

Here's a newer e-mail that picks up where the others left off; but be aware that this was posted on AGR by spiritrising, I don't always concider his posts to be reliable but since this is a very important subject, I posted it anyway. I am currently trying to double check this with other sources

Cinnamon


>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:08:03 -0600


> * * * Indirectly, I received this communique from your personal
> envoy, Jeff Kline, to an individual, who apparently is hoping to
> help with scouting this year in the coming region of Arkansas,
> Oklahoma, and Texas.
> * * * * I am forwarding this communique to ThanksGiving
> Circle/council, which will be the next opportunity for those People
> of the Rainbow Family who are volunteering or sharing energy on
> this coming Annual Gathering July 1-7, to come together -- yet to
> be announced where.
> * * * * For many years now, as Forest Service and your offices are
> aware, Thanksgiving opens the Circle, begins the process of Counci,
> for the upcoming 2007 Annual Gathering. I am forwarding this
> letter/email through the internet, etc...


> * * * * I hope for clarification of a few questions, which follow,
> and I would like to offer a simple suggestion for a directive
> concerning applying 36 CFR 251 to accommodate groups, assemblies,
> associations like/similar to Rainbow Family Tribe and the Annual
> Gathering. I offer it in many words, I am sure it can be written in
> fewer words.


> * * * * My questions: is Jeff Kline acting officially? Is this
> offering genuine? If so, would you, personally, and the Chief of
> Forest Service, write a simple directive to all Districts, one of
> cooperation? *Also, these communications have included conference
> calls between Jeff Kline, Forest Service, and various individuals
> (?) of the Rainbow Family Tribe i.e. Rainbow Family volunteers for
> 2007 Annual. These communications include your envoy Jeff Kline and
> John Twiss, Law Enforcement Chief, Forest Service. Jeff Kline,
> perhaps, is also working as an envoy for the Forest Service?


> * * * * My suggestion is:
> * * * * Directive authorize District Rangers, Regional Supervisors,
> Law Enforcement, *to apply 36 CFR 251, section that
> reads"authorized officer shall offer an alternative manner" -- so
> as to open greater access to the national forest, to include
> groups, assemblies, individuals that can only meet certain
> application requirements concerning *responsibility for the actual
> issues necessary i.e. public health, sanitation, environmental
> concerns, public safety BUT who cannot meet the signature
> requirement, etc.. *i.e. not sign a permit, etc. *- on religious,
> free speech, peaceable assembly reasons, etc.. --


> * * * * This "alternative manner" *shall include Reservation i.e.
> notification - this has been done already, communication has begun
> on 2007 Annual Gathering, at the 2006 Annual Gathering, Tom, permit
> administrator for 2007 Annual *came "informally", came to
> Cooperations Circle, and on July 1, came to Circle/council, at
> Noon, and spoke, informally - in these conversations Tom stated he
> would be permit administrator for 2007 Annual and Garrick Beck,
> myself, *others have written to Tom, so on-going communications has
> begun -- these communications have included conference calls
> between various individuals (?) of the Rainbow Family Tribe i.e.
> Rainbow Family volunteers for 2007 Annual, and your envoy Jeff
> Kline and John Twiss, Law Enforcement Chief, Forest Service. Jeff
> Kline, perhaps, is also working as an envoy for the Forest Service?


> * * * * For my information, and for forwarding to ThanksGiving
> Circle, I would appreciate your answers to these questions. I
> personally would like to thank you for making this offer - for me,
> (and many others), Direct communications is preferred, rather than
> through an envoy -- to all the 2007 Annual Gathering People.
> Announcements can be made on a number of available internet sites,
> very familiar to the Forest Service, if you post them to me, I will
> forward outward to all points of light, to all the interested people.


> * * * * I would love to see normal relationship with Resource
> people of the Forest Service. Eventually, the in-district LEO's can
> handle any calls made by the Gathering for assistance -- see
> Operating Plan, 2006 Annual Gathering, draft -- this Operating Plan
> went through Circle June 30th, with hundreds of people giving
> Consensus, for every word ----


> * * * * -- even while withstanding many indignities that included:
> pepper-spray, strip-searches of women by male officers, invasions
> of every sort, violence by LEO's took place, sad stuff -- because
> of the strong community spirit of Peace and Unity, gathering folks
> came together, the chant was PEACE, WE WIN! Strong, beautiful,
> mostly young people, standing strong together, keeping the peace,
> agreeing to this Operating Plan --


> * * * * - Forest Service Resource could not work with us "formally"
> on this, however, Kent Foster, fire guy, and Resource worked
> "informally" with Rainbow Gatherers, used the Operating Plan as
> guidelines, in regards to Cook/warming Fires, Forest Service came
> in, walked around, inspected, and certified... and before Forest
> Service did this, Gathering Fire Watch inspected, certified
> rainbow-style... other resource, envirnonmental, public health,
> sanitation, and clean-up, etc.. the guidelines were contained in
> the Draft Operating Plan.


> * * * * Note: this is a similar process of Operating Plan i.e. a
> Site is found, early people on Site fully explore the Site, develop
> with Resource Forest Service, through cooperation, communications
> on-site -- see resource and rainbow, oregon 1997 report, excellent
> relationship... *As in Penn 1999, District Ranger and/or resource,
> work out with Gatherers, on-site, an Operating Plan, mutual
> agreement, then, if Forest Service want to "certify" that all the
>resource, public health, safety, sanitation needs are met, then they
>can issue said certification. Come in respect July 1, give it to the
>Annual Gathering.


> * * * There have been many CHANGES IN APPLYING this regulation -
> this would be simple. And then, approach ThanksGiving Circle, in
> respect -- I would be happy with all this, if things get worked out
> in this way - no fuss, no muss.


> * * * * * Scouting always must be done in the Spring, regardless of
> other considerations, because in the Spring is when how much water
> there is? and other environmental reasons - heaven forbid, but
> their might be a hurricane, etc.. Scouting in the Spring, done in
> cooperation with District people -- trust needs to be developed in
> this area, for sure.


> * * * * If things worked out, wow, wouldn't it be good, if Forest
> Service and Rainbow showed up at town meetings, worked out problems
> of people on the streets, etc..., with local authorities, in mutual
> cooperation. Imagine inflow and outflow, with LEO and Shanti Sena,
> working out the people problems, without adversity between. John
> Lennon would be happy.
> * * * * Please reply to my questions concerning how formal this
> offer is? I certainly have every hope it means peace communications
> can begin, and perhaps, after so many years, there could be Peace
> between the Forest Service and Rainbow Family Tribe, so the Annual
> Gathering of the Tribes for PEACE, July 1-7, can happen in Peace.


> * * * * Thank you,
> * * * * Barry Adams, plunker, Montana, Rainbow Family Tribe

 

this is a sticky situation. Who on earth would take up the responsibility to sign the permit because if anything happens that person is at fault.? I wish i could go to the Thanks Giving council. I hope everything is straightened out. good luck family! thanks for all the hard work!