Hunting wolves?

I wasn't sure where to put this:

Wolf hunt is on in Idaho _ for now
Sep 1, 2009 (6:14p CDT)

(AP) Wolf hunt is on in Idaho - for now
By TODD DVORAK
Associated Press Writer
BOISE, Idaho
Gray wolves were back in the cross hairs of hunters on Tuesday, just months after they were removed from the federal endangered species list and eight decades since being hunted to extinction across the Northern Rockies.

Hunters in Idaho began stalking gray wolves in a handful of districts in the central and northern mountains. Shortly after dawn, an Idaho real estate agent became the first to report a kill.

Robert Millage of the lumber town of Kamiah bagged an adult female from 25 yards away in the mountains near the Lochsa River, state officials said.

"I just wanted to beat my buddies to the punch, but I didn't know I'd beaten everybody in the state," said Millage, 34, who has hunted in Idaho for 22 years. "It was really an adrenaline rush to have those wolves all around me, howling and milling about after I fired the shot."

It remained unclear, however, just how much longer hunters would have to thin the wolf population in Idaho and Montana, which is scheduled to open its season in two weeks.

U.S. District Judge Donald Molloy in Montana was expected to rule soon on a request by environmental groups to stop the hunts in both states.

"The human population successfully eradicated wolves from this region in the early part of the 20th century, and it would be a true shame after all the efforts that went into recovery if that happened again," said Jenny Harbine, an attorney for Earthjustice, a plaintiff in the case.

An estimated 1,650 of the animals now live in the Northern Rockies thanks to a controversial reintroduction program that started in 1995.

Idaho set a quota of 220 wolves for this hunting season as part of its plan for managing the wolf population. The quota is 75 in Montana.

Idaho officials say they have no idea how many hunters headed into the woods to track the predators. State rules require hunters to notify game officials within 24 hours of a wolf kill and present the skull and pelt to wardens within five days.

So far, Idaho has sold more than 10,700 wolf permits, mostly to hunters who will head to the backcountry next month when elk and deer season begins. Hunters in Montana snatched up more than 2,600 tags on Monday, the first day of sales for the upcoming hunt.

The wolves were removed from the endangered species list in those states just four months ago. The environmental groups fear there aren't enough state protections in place to maintain their comeback.

The creatures were once abundant across North America, but by the 1930s had been largely exterminated outside Alaska and Canada.
(This is just part of the article)

The thing that got me is there is only an estimated 1,650 of the animals now living in the Northern Rockies and yet they sold 13300 permits to kill them, that's 8 hunting permits for each wolf. If just over 10% of those with permits kill a wolf then wolves will be extinct again in a year.

 

This is absolutely unconscionable, although you know all it does is make legal what hunters have already been doing in Idaho for some years now. The Salmon River country in central Idaho is as wild a land as you will find anywhere in the lower 48, and it's impossible to police it for poachers. In the case of illegal hunting of wolves, the state wildlife people know perfectly well what's going on ... they basically just look the other way.

I lived in northern Idaho for almost 20 years, and still have a house there. I love Idaho. But this kind of stuff makes me so angry I could spit ...

 

Another thing, why are they hunting them? Just to say you killed one? I can understand that deer and elk are meat in the freezer but does anyone eat wolf?

 

Yep. To put a head on your wall. But I suspect also to get back at the environmental movement, who these people hate with a passion.

 

Seems to be mutual...

 

Yeah I mean, considering the species just came back, it might be good to give them a break. Ultimately though, because of increased development the few small patches of land we have left only have a carrying capacity of so many animals of each type.

I don't know about Idaho, but in Massachusetts the hunting is very strictly regulated. It's not just "let's go out and plug some animals". I used to be very against hunting, but the more I've learned about the state wildlife department the more I think it's good the way they regulate it.

The reason so many animals were hunted to extinction was because hunting wasn't regulated. The reason a lot of animals are coming back is because the state agencies are making it their mission to ensure that habitat is protected and animals "restocked". I know up in New England turkeys and geese used to be scarce (the 70s) now they're everywhere. The reason is proper wildlife management.

On the wolf thing though... maybe a few more years of recovery would be appropriate. And the article doesn't make it sound like they have the most stringent guidelines in place. In Mass the Fish and Wildlife people are the only people that can enter your home without a warrant.

 

Personally, I'm a not a hunter but if things get tight I might do a little supplementing myself but that's part of my problem with hunting wolves, if you're hungry fine shoot something but I've never heard of anyone eating a wolf. The other part of my problem with this, is the selling of 8 times more permits than wolves. With other animals they have a pretty good idea how many animals they want culled and pretty much know how many permits will accomplish it but with wolves they have no idea. I mean with 13,300 already issued, maybe more, if they want let's say only 100 wolves culled, that means they feel only 1 in 133 will shoot a wolf. Most of the hunters I know, if they have a permit they come back with the animal. Are there really that many bad hunters with wolf permits?

 

Seems almost like shooting dogs to me.I don't care for it.

 

Well WaterBrother, I think you're right in that there are way too many permits issued. Though, how many people with permits will ever even get the chance to see a wolf when on the hunt? Let alone be able to connect?

 

You might need to look a little closer.

 

Here's hoping that only bad hunters get the permits.

 

It's a difficult situation.. on the farmers side, as I am a farmer, you have you livestock that feeds your family, you work and slave for what you have, it aint much but it's all you got to survive and then comes along a hungry pack of wolves and wipes out your herd.. do you say ohh well they needed it more then we did, go laydown kids untill you starve.

Or do you shoot/trap them and save your herd and family. You know there IS NO choice when it comes to an animal or a human. And it is rediculas to sit and listen to some city folks who no nothing of the law of the jungle, the survival of the fittest. To talk about something they dont understand.

No one wants to kill wolves, well unless the wolves took out their herd or ran off with their pet dog or child even. You cannot have it both ways, humans and wild animals do not mix well.

So who is willing to sacrifice their livestock and family for the survival of the wolf?!? C'on, dont be shy, step right up and we'll send ya the wolves

I'm not saying what's right or wrong, I'm just sitting here on my farm hoping I'll still have my livestok tomorrow.

 

I personally feel that if a wolf or for matter any predator is on your property attacking your livestock that you have the right to protect what you have but the thing is this is hunting, not for food, not for protection but so you can say you shot a wolf and not just culling but hunting with the possibility of once again eliminating the wolf again with one season.

PS. When was the last time a child was lost to wolves in North America? Has it ever happened?

 

This argument is terribly misguided. First of all, the wolves in Idaho live in the Frank Church Wilderness, one of the wildest and most remote areas of the Lower 48. There is almost no human settlement there, and therefore no herds to "wipe out".

No one has made any claims that the Idaho wolves have been predating livestock.

For that matter, research has repeatedly shown that wolves do not necessarily prey on livestock anyway. Their primary prey is moose. There have been established packs in Canada and Isle Royale in northern Michigan for many years without problems. Wolves have been observed countless times blithely trotting past sheep and cattle during hunting forays, completely ignoring them.

The reason they do this, it is thought, is because wolves are extremely intelligent, social animals, and young wolves are taught by their parents what animals constitute their "proper" prey. If they are not taught that cattle are prey, they ignore them.

Perhaps that sounds implausible to you, and perhaps it's not really the reason that hunting wolves would ignore cattle. But that they do ignore them is a fact, and has been observed many, many times.

This is sensationalism and not based on known wolf behavior. No one has had to "sacrifice their family" for the survival of wolves.

I am not saying that wolves should live near heavily populated areas, like coyotes do. As you say, they do not mix well with large human populations.

But wolf "management", assuming there needs to be any, should be based on the truth, not inaccuracies or worse, old wives tales.

 

That's a perfectly reasonable question, and the answer is no, there has never been a documentated case of wolves preying on children in the United States.

 

Why, am I missing something?

 

Yeah coyotes are a much more likely livestock bane. We have em all around here but haven't had a loss in years. Beautiful singers.

 

Here again, studies have shown that stock losses to coyote predation have been greatly overstated. In truth, ranchers ought to thank coyotes, because of their role in keeping rodent populations in check.

In years past, misguided coyote poisoning campaigns in western states invariably led to explosions in rodent populations, which in turn resulted in more sheep losses than were ever lost to coyote predation, because their grazing ranges were overrun with rabbits and other rodents.

There are effective ways of keeping coyotes away from sheep, but shooting, in the long run, isn't one of them.

Coyotes are a fascinating study. Despite being shot, trapped, poisoned, and having state bounties put on them ... despite all attempts to exterminate them as varmints, there are more coyotes now than at any time in the past, and they're more widely distributed in the United States than they ever were.

And you're absolutely right about the singing ... it's an unusual night that I don't hear them out in the desert near my home. It always gives me a thrill to hear their multi-part chorus.

 

We have a really basic deer fence perimeter and small electric interior fence on our pastures and it's worked great at discouraging the coyotes. I've still found tracks through the pastures every now and again, but like I said, not a loss in years.

Then again, whenever we loose a sheep or have to put one down for one reason or another we dump the bodies over the perimeter fence so the coyotes can get at at it.

Sort of like an offering, heh.

 

I find the hunting of wolves who have done nothing except to exist is simply a travesty and illustrates yet another example of mankind in our arrogance, attempting to rule over the natural world.

It should be noted that the state of Idaho has issued thousands of hunting permits while the federal appellate court vacillates on the validity of this senselessness, there have only been three (3) confirmed kills (murders) of wolves in the state.

It is obvious to anyone that wolves are far smarter than we humans with our tools (weapons) and that without them, in the form of domesticated dogs, we would not have survived that many ice ages our two mutual species have encountered in the past.

Hopefully, this insanity will be stopped and the sooner the better...