How did the world begin?

Ello,

This is a question for the atheists, just because im curious, really. Im wondering how you believe the world(or universe) began...or whether you believe it ever began at all. Has it always existed? "Creation" has always baffled me, and ive never been able to get my head around it. So any ideas would be greatly appreciated

Love-Maxi.Xx

 

Somehow a Supermolecule containing the entire Universe exploded.
(never mind how the Universe already existed in a tiny supercondensed pill ok)

Anyways, gasses turned to liquid balls and the balls of flaming liquid turned to hard cooler balls called 'Planets'.

On this particular planet called Earth, there was some pools of 'soup' spread out and a long bolt of lightening penetrated it.
The Soup came to life and began to morph into fish, beetles, bronotsaurus, people and ever living thing on earth including plants and trees and viruses too!

All of this happened by random chance or 'accident' if you can believe it!

It has no purpose and will die again and eventually maybe everything will then concentrate back into a tiny 'Universe Pill' like the one we started with.

Thats a basic outline of the most common and (official state sponsored) creation myth held by most Atheists and many others too.

 

Well, this was actually what made me wonder. I have an atheist friend who is very fond of the "Big Bang" theory. When i asked him to explain it, he said that "energy lines" crossed in the sky(or something...im not very scientific) and particles hit together and created an explosion. Which is all very well and good, but what i want to know is...where did this "energy" come from? Energy doesnt just come from nowhere...its a reaction. Anyway it got me thinking about the whole creation thing, which still confuses me.
Thanks for your post, made me smile

-Maxi.Xx

 

verseau_miracle

Wellmet.

Occam proposes that 'reality' . That which the big bang
HAPPENED IN
Has always existed.

For anything to happen.
A reality must exist for it to 'happen' in.
Without reality. Nothing happens...=no time.
with reality. things happen=time.

Reality of course. Has ALWAYS EXISTED..
Because existance produces time.

Ask yourself this. 'when' did reality not exist."?

Occam

 

Well, i have explored this idea quite deeply, and i actually quite like the idea of things always having existed. Infinity, and all that...

But to me, infinity is an idea linked to higher forces, or at least equal forces which we dont know about. The mind of man is, afterall, not capable of conceiving infinity...we cant picture it in its true form, we are not great enough. We must use symbols, or numbers(which are symbols too) I often feel, when thinking about things like this, a little barrier come down in my brain, with the words "too big for you to know" written on. But someone must know. Perhaps that "someone" is within us, only it is in restricted access for now. The question is, who made the restriction?

Thanks for your reply i curse that barrier quite often...I cant stop thinking about these sorts of things, and i want to go further and further but cant. But other peoples ideas always help a lot.

Xx

 

Why does the universe have to have been created ? Is it possible the universe has always existed and will continue to exist forever ? This makes much more sense to me than the big bang or creationism.

 

I don't know how reality came into existence. I have no idea if it is infinite or not. There are a lot theories about it; they are all unverifiable and, whether accurate or not, have no effect on my life, therefore I just don't care. I'm willing to leave the question unanswered, since I find it unanswerable.

 

This is how it seems to me that it happened:

There was an explosion of a beyond mind-boggling magnitude. Raw energy, in unfathomably high concentrations, began expanding in all directions simultaneously. Shortly afterwards, subtle probability deviances caused the expanding energy to become less even, creating parts of the spherical energy burst to go slower, some to go faster, some places containing more energy than others.

This continued to occur for a long time, until the energy finally spread apart enough to condense, in specific amounts, into cooler, more stable molecules. The first molecules created were at least roughly proportionate in terms of matter vs. antimatter, but in the places where quantified deviances broke the balance, more matter existed than antimatter (and in other places, more antimatter existed than matter). As these molecules were forming continuously (mainly the basic particles such as protons and neutrons, but also the rare ones including neutrinos, pions, muon, et cetera), they were also colliding with their antiparticles continuously, causing annihilation, which results in large explosions of energy being released (MUCH smaller than the big bang, but they are still little bangs). This results in a firecracker-like effect, which further pronounces the deviations in patches of matter and antimatter.

And so, some galaxies are predominantly antimatter and other galaxes are predominantly matter. Ours is matter.

But that's jumping ahead 15 billion years. Let's go back for a second.

As these patches begin to form (at various speeds and in various directions), they consist almost entirely of hydrogen and similarly small elements. These patches of matter and antimatter became the first Generation I stars.

By probability and statistics, these patches of matter and antimatter were VERY, very large. As they spread apart and the less dominant type was "weeded out" so to speak, the gravity between each of these gigantic clouds of hydrogen would begin to suck the clouds into a supermassive ball of hydrogen. This would result in a supermassive star being formed, which would quickly turn into a supercompressed star, which would explode violently as an enormous supernova.

From THESE explosions, more matter (or antimatter depending on where you are) was formed, in more complex molecules than simple hydrogen. Now, heavier elements including carbon, iron, and also slightly more complex elements such as helium, oxygen, nitrogen, and even water began spreading away from the supernova, in patches of plenty of hydrogen mixed with these denser elements.

In places where light molecules such as noble gasses grouped together but weren't large enough to compress, these became the common gas clouds that can be found all over the galaxies. In places where heavier molecules gathered, these became large comets and such. In areas with copious amounts of both, the hydrogen would group together thanks to gravity, and become a star (a Generation II star, like that of our sun and all other stars in the sky). Patches of carbon, and patches of heavier gasses, and patches of water, and iron ... these patches would also group together, and form dense planets, which are all attracted to the greatest gravity of the sun (but are travelling so fast that they orbit the sun). Planets with much carbon would turn out to be "soilly" like Earth and Venus. Planets with iron and water would be as Mars (the red surface of Mars is caused by rust. Rust is everywhere on that planet; water and iron, mixed heterogeneously). Planets with gasses would be as Jupiter and Saturn, and planets of just pure water would form along the outer rims of the system, much like the frozen ice world Pluto.

In time, the sun's hydrogen would fuse into helium, and denser compounds including carbon and lead, which stay at the core of the sun. The fusion caused by the intense gravity produces light and heat for its orbiting planets, and with enough other factors mixed in the right amounts (since the universe contains so many of these systems that it'd be hard to find a specific pattern that doesn't exist anywhere in the universe) can produce and sustain simple life forms, which may evolve and turn into more complex life forms. Humans are an example of such a complex life form. The tiny bacteria and such that have been found on comets that have dropped in antarctica from Mars; these are the not so lucky ones, which didn't evolve much.

Eventually, after 15 billion years, things are VERY spread apart in all directions. There is an extremely diverse variety of phenomena going on in the universe; everything from supermassive black holes to quantum electron tunnelling. Another such phenomena would be fourth-dimensional dark matter (matter which has slipped into the fourth spatial dimension due to black holes, from which 90% of the universe's gravity is presumed to come). Even life itself is a phenomena (perhaps the most impressive one of all)!

However, as the universe expands, the gravity from the rest of the universe ever so barely tugs at each piece, slowing it down bit by bit. Eventually, the universe will be cold and lifeless, and will stop expanding.

From there, depending on how things work out, the universe may then begin contracting (which is what I think will probably happen), or it may eventually settle out and tend toward absolute zero kinetic energy. Everything will stop moving, and be equally spread out.

If the universe begins contracting, eventually all things will begin to collide in the center. The intense gravitational forces will turn the universe's central core into an ULTRAMASSIVE black hole, sucking in all things at ludicrous speed, and even being so massive that the fabric of time may be altered so that the speed of light is increased exponentially.

Eventually, the gravity will consume EVERYTHING, and at one final instant, the entire universe's contents will be smashed into a zero-dimensional point, a singularity. The extreme energy level of this point, crammed into an infintesimally small space, will "rupture" the space-time continuum of the universe, causing gravity to invert, which will result in -- you guessed it -- another big bang, with energy exploding outward in all directions.

And the universe continues expanding and contracting thusly. It is created and destroyed and created anew each time this happen. It may have been happening forever. Or this may be the first time it is happening. Or perhaps it all started at one point, and has repeated since that point. What created it? Who knows.

Perhaps it always existed, since time is a part of the universe's dimensions (it is a universal force that regulates change). When the universe's contents are crammed into one singular point, so is space and time (due to the intense gravitational curvature). When this happens, time is irrelevant; time does not exist. So how could it be measured?

This is how I see things. It is only a vague and ambiguous hypothesis gathered from reading lots of random stuff about science.

 

i wasn't there.

and neither were rocks, trees or anything more familiar then protosubatomic particles.

but by world to you mean the mineral mass of the planet, the web of life on its surface, or our own species?

or do you mean 'the' universe which is much larger and a much larger question. one that we don't absolutely know needs to have had a beggining.

steady state and big bang arn't the only possibilities, just the most discussed, and neither are entirely incompatable with the possible existence of a nontangable awairness existing outside of time and space, simply not entirely requiring its intervention either.

=^^=
.../\...

 

I think the important thing to consider is that the bible's explanation of creation is equally as ludicrous.

 

Umm...

If you can buy the idea tha "god" always existed why can't you feel the same way about energy?

 

Wouldn't exist if God did not act, right?

 

And if there is no God to act?

 

Well, I dont really see what on Earth God has to do with the Bible...so, i dont really see why that has to be considered in this

 

You have a good point, sara, and one ive never considered before. I suppose if the "energy" had always existed, that would, in effect, be God.

I think its a shame that so many people misunderstand the concept of God...I largely blame the Bible and other religious books for this...

Anyone with working braincells can tell that the Bible's God in the clouds who punishes naughty people on Earth is a ludicrous idea, and simply a human fantasy...but no way should this destroy the possibility of higher forces, which to me is simply...evident.

Xx

 

1. People living in the west tend to associate god and the word god with Christianity, Judaism, or Islam
2. People in the west tend to think (or fabricate the fact) that the only other explanation for the world's creation once they have discredited the ideas of Athiests is that a super-intelligent being created the universe
3. There are christians posting in this thread who completely deny the existence of the God, Gods, or Godhead you speak of (i am assuming you're talking along the lines of 'all creation', but as not defined by religious ideas). So that comment wasn't necessarily for your benefit.

Do you get me? I was essentially trying to get into the minds of people who only accept two possibilities, Bible God, or No God.

 

I dreamed it, maybe some undigested piece of pizza I ate last night.

 

There is. So, umm, keep playin with maya.

 

Because of how we percieve the world, we automaticly assume (and can't think any other way) that you must take one thing, turn it into something else and this is creation. Also because every possesion we own, the earth we step on, the people, plants and animals we intereact with - these we know, were once created - it is hard for us to comprehend that the universe might not have been 'created'.

and i think this is the thing that is stopping us from realising the meaning of life and creation etc.

 

In the beginning was Gawd. He took a big shit and all of you came out.

That's my explanation.