Green Spirituality - a rant

We have absolutely no control over our actions or how we feel about the actions God carries out with the body we are in. This makes us observers of God's actions (within the body of God).

Might as well say that a little discipline (pain) is required for enlightenment. Discipline is not torture, even if it is painful. Of course, like going to the gym, it might take a little while before you perceive the benefits (although, in my experience, going to the gym and putting on muscle is a lot easier of an experience than becoming enlightened).

No it won't. Do you think God inflicts pain on people needlessly? Do you think God wastes a single soul that God has created?

No, it is simply understanding reality.

Well, as long as you understand that God did it, and you have faith in God, you know that God's actions are for the best. People seem to be blind to the fact that discipline (pain, possibly death of the body) are required for enlightenment.

It doesn't. It's not surrender. It's realising that God does the things that make you happy. It's realising that God does really cool stuff for you and touches you to the core of your being- there is no part of your being that God does not touch at all times.

Hi ego! Anyway, to break it down for you, there will be pain and suffering (discipline) for you until you acknowledge the one who is caring for you- although this pain and suffering is relieved by the lovingkindness that God knows you need.

Nope, God want's us to enjoy God's divine presence, and not worry about details that God can take care of. If there is pain in your life, it is because you pay attention to the discipline God is meeting out to you and those who do not acknowledge that God controls everything.

I play video games sometimes. When I play them, I am partially blind to the fact that God is controlling everything (the blindness that God causes so that I can enjoy the experience of playing the game). This same blindness allows me to enjoy the ficticious plotline of a book or a movie. Then God sneaks out of nowhere and turns on the light if the book starts to depress me or piss me off. What God is saying for me is "I play in the dark and bask in the light. I am a child of God."

 

You know, you can't add one iota to what God gives you. Work, money, knowledge, wisdom, general tso's chicken, etc. Once you accept that it is not your power that governs things, maybe God will hook you up.

 

well no one is going to listen to you with that kind of attitude. whats the point in dicussing abything with you if you know youve figured everything out and your beliefs will never change?

 

I can't really be bothered to argue. If you think God controls everything in this direct way, then I'm afraid you are simply wrong.

 

But actually, I suppose this is yet another factor in the overall equation. As well as one set of folks who think it's a world made by God just for them to exploit as they like, there is another belief that God does everything, so we might as well not concern ourselves with the rape of the environment. I believe that ulimately, that is just fatalism.
If we take that view, then it doesn't matter what we do, and choice is an illusion anyway.
Clear enough that those with such a view are not likely to support the green cause. Or any other cause I guess.

But I'm not impressed by such a negative view of our being. I think we do have choices, and how we exercise our choices can have a crucial role in shaping the future. We can go on until it is too late and disaster strikes on a massive scale, or we can begin to try to embrace a new consciousness of our oneness and inter-dependency with nature and try to bring change in whatever ways we can.

 

That you can learn from me by arguing against me. It does sink in, after all.

 

Well I know God does. Something I just saw God do that was funny was the response to Colours statement. Before I saw your statement "I can't really be bothered to argue." God wrote to Colours "That you can learn from me by arguing against me. It does sink in, after all."

The reason God says "I" about stuff that I percieve is to reveal my true nature to myself and others (what wisdom God has placed within me- the proverbial candle on a hilltop trick- look, I placed this knowledge in this one, see what I do with it).

 

It is fatalism, which appears bad to those who lack faith in God.

What we do still matters, after all, we are here to feel what God does because God wants us to see God do stuff. Of course, the correct perspective of what we 'do' is entirely passive.

It is.

Wrong. I support the cause of God, because I love God. I enjoy being a part of God's cause, feeling God, seeing God work, being a true witness to God's actions that can faithfully testify to the truth by God showing others what I feel.

I am impressed by your negative view of the truth of our being. God makes all kinds.

Well, grasping at nature is the first step of understanding God, so you are on your way. BTW- God is a weanie (from a faithful and true witnesses perspective).

 

Fatalism is a disease of the mind. We have to have faith in God, but also faith in ourselves and our ability to create our own world.

Passive you say? Yes your view is passive. It's a bit like transcendental masturbation if you ask me. .

Your view is useless and selfish, and if you think you testify to some divine truth you are wholly deluded. It is people like you who will sit and spout crap about how close you are to your supposed God whilst the world around them goes into oblivion who are the problem.

 

The thing to do is to understand that we are all instruments through which divinity can be expressed. The way God works is through us. Some are poor instruments, whose response is not really the desired one, others are well tuned, who perform their task exactly as expected. It is in this latter capacity that we must act, only then can we be sure that all our activities will be beneficial to one and all. After all, God is not different from us.

 

Disbelief in the truth is a disease of the mind. It causes you to feel ego accomplishments such as "I work a lot and donate to charity, I am a good person" or "I am protecting the environment, so I am a good person."

God reveals what is in our souls to others by the words that come out of our soul. What I see in you is lack of knowledge of God and God's sense of humor...

The truth is being with and loving my creator for doing all things for me is not selfish. However what you do by ignoring the one who does all things for you and taking credit for what our God does is selfish.

Actually, God is punishing 'the world around me' (that is, those who do not know God) for ignoring God's hand in all things. Of course, God is very merciful as well, and will not give a child such as yourself more punishment than you can bear. When potty training a 2 year old, you need to slowly train them, let them know you love them even though you discipline them for not wanting to poop in a toilet.

You will have no lasting peace until you acknowledge God.

 

Thanks Bhaskar for your comments with which I broadly agree. But I'd like to extend what you say about our oneness with God to encompass our oneness with nature also. We are a part of nature, but somehow, modern culture is out of tune with the natural world, and now, the activities of industrial capitalism are posing a serious threat to the future of the global eco system. Already, many plant and animal spieces which it took God and Nature billions of years to form have been wiped out, and many, many more are expected to follow.
Glaciers in the northern part of India are rapidly accelerating their melt rate, and thus threatening the livelyhood of millions of farmers, as well as the wildlife.
The catalogue, as I'm sure you are aware, goes on and on.

To recap on my original point, I think that a.) we need forms of spirituality and spiritual experience which bring us to a realization of our deep connection to all life, and to the earth itself.
b.) spiritually awake people need to put aside petty differences of opinion and speak out on behalf of the environment before it is too late. We have to see that we don't just have the right to exploit rescouces for ends of greed and without regard for future generations. We have to see ourselves as custodians of the planet, with a holy obligation to preserve it for future generations.
So you are dead right - we have to try to become instruments of the Divine, and I for one am certain that God doesn't want ecological armageddon.
And to go even further, perhaps the whole thing of the artificiallity of living conditions which have been imposed on people since the time of the industrial revolution is just another aspect of what has to change. People live far removed - divorced from nature in a hyper real and illusory kind of awareness. If we could begin to recover this lost connection with nature, perhaps people would then become more open to the spiritual. As it is now, they are distracted by junk food, media bullshit, computer games etc. I hate to use the phrase, but I think we need to get back to basics.
Sorry for the repitition, but I just wanted to re-affirm what I think are absolutely critical issues.

 

Go play trolls elsewhere Karakhov.

 

lol of course, Bill.

 

I am serious about what I say.

Anyway, something wise I read today:
"It doesn't become the status of a true child of God to be denied the right to exercise judgement informed by the spirit. God doesn't want us to become empty headed imbeciles who won't point the finger at lies, wrong, or evil when we see it.
Spiritual discernment and authority are gifts of the spirit.

I agree compassion is necessary, but the whole point is that through the power of God people can change the paths they are on, no matter how set they seem to be in their ways."

I am not playing troll. I am serious.

 

Ok - here's my point then - the basis really of my position on this.

I don't believe that God wills every single thing that happens to happen. God creates a universe which is self actualizing. It is a universe where everything is governed not by the direct will or action of God, but by laws which are inherent in it. Matter itself, and certainly cellular life may be 'contelligent' entities. The original intelligence would be a kind of executive power of God.
I also think there is a global intelligence within Nature - along the lines of the famous Gaia hypothesis. Nature Herself is in one sense a Goddess, or one aspect of the Goddess.
Human beings have only evolved here after countless ages of plant and animal life. At this stage, mankind is the crown of creation. The most complex relatively individuated form nature has yet evolved here. We are different from previous speices by virtue of our mental being - our power of abstract symbolic thought, and because we can come to know ourselves, God and Nature.
The animal has only a very limited freedom. Mainly, they are controlled by purely instinctual drives. I would suggest that is one function of contelligent nature. The intelligence in the animal is expressed through unconscious drives and imperatives. In humans, there is the possibility of an action on a basis of a free mental choice. We have an analytical intelligence, and the conclusions reached by this are not always a true reflection of reality, but sometimes they are, and hence humans have aquired new knowledge, knowledge not given by God directly, but got through using the apparatus he has created - the human being. He even becomes a human being according to many traditions.
Also with the human being comes in the possibility of departing from the dominance of purely 'natural' drives.
But there is no spontaneous accord with nature such as we see in animals, nor is there an inate knowledge of God - that has to be aquired, and it can come in many forms, some a truer reflection of reality than others.
Trouble is that the science and technology we have evolved seperate from any knowledge of God, and deployed largely in a chaotic and uncontrolled way, at the service of not very divine qualities like greed and the lust for power, have seriously disrupted not only the whole basis of human society, but now threaten nature, from which we have become isolated and almost cut off, precisely because of the insane pressures we have created in modern society. None of that is given or created by God, it is a human creation. Nature is God's creation - this so called civilization is a human creation, with little input from God. Largely, it is based upon a materialist viewpoint.
So - what we have done we can change, if the will is there. I am sure God wants this world preserved, and life on it.
Maybe if there is a big disaster - an ice age say, or some other environmental catyclysm, the whole process would just begin again eventually. But it might be preferable to save what we now have - but begin to use it all somewhat differently.
Inspiration to act may come from God - but it is up to the individual to put that into action. But if people don't see or begin to see that the whole of Nature is God's Self expression, to see the spirit in nature, I think there is danger of God just being a kind of escape from an unpleasant reality. The attitude of 'just let the world fall to bits' can easily set in it seems.
But I also think a true experience of the spirit is sure to inspire reverence not only for God, but for nature too. Those forms of religion which don't open people to their connection with nature are sterile, and can lead only to a very partial experience. Because we are part of one continuum of Nature and the Divine.

 

Hey Bill, I edited this to add that God influenced me with what was in your soul. Nature is very important to me, I love it- it is part of God's expression of love. I want you to know that I care for it (as part of God's love) but do not worry about it, like a child does not worry about their parent wiping their bum when they poo themselves- God eventually teaches them to want God to take care of their poo in a better way (the toilet). God takes care of us. No worries bro.. Anyway, the rest of this message was written earlier....

Thanks for responding. I think you are doing what God intends for you to do, but sometimes that means you and I must publically expose that which God has given us to other ideas in order to learn higher truths. Of course, for me, this exposure is simply the action of God upon me, using me as a living picture to show others (and myself) what God has written upon me.

I have seen God acting in specific ways (natural law) a majority of the time I have been in God's presence. This is to provide us with a stable learning environment, and to show God's sublime control and intelligence (intending the universe to arrive at a certain predetermined point by obeying self (God) determined 'physical' law in almost all instances).

I still see God, even when God portrays God's self in a very beautiful, loving, feminate orgasmic way. I see no separation. Even the smell of a gross stinky fart is God (but it's God being gross to make me laugh). Or pollution, death and destruction, some other things God does to make me happy (since I know it is just God being 'scary').

I see stuff from an entirely different perspective. God is the crown of creation (immanently) and everything is meaningful in a very special intimate way.

I am sorry, but if you do not directly percieve God's direct control of everything, from your hunger for a zagnut to your walking to the store to get it, you are not aware of the truth.

Well, for all intents and purposes, your human body is God and the actions it does are God's actions. You only feel the actions of God to your soul (self) and have a limited perception of what the actions God carries out with "your" body mean to others. Look at the universe as a whole- God holding up many different souls, sometimes showing what lies within one soul to another (like 'our' messages). Some souls fear this intimate contact, so do not acknowledge it. God still cares for them, so they do not learn the truth unless they are disciplined by God (takes knowledge and pain to shock them out of their blissful stupor).

To tell you the truth, I like fiction about lust and greed, although it is always nice to come back to reality, which is far more pleasant than the hell that entertains me.

I am sorry. You are wrong. Everything you have said indicates a very mortal understanding. Only God can show you the truth.

Ahh, so to see the whole of nature as God's self expression! Yes. But do not think you have any control over anything. I gotta go play rummicube with my parents and brother... came to their house for a week..

 

That makes no sense. If everything we do and say is actually just God doing what God wants, he is punishing the world for his own fun, because we are unable to choose to acknowledge God. Those ignoring God's hand in all things are only doing it because God wants them too. So why does he punish?

 

Not really. It isn't out of animosity, it's because of how God reveals God's existence to you. It is very important for you to want to know God before God will reveal God's (true) existence (form) to you. God causes you to want this by planting certain ideas within you- that your desire for God's care is within you because of the suffering you have been put through.
You know how you start with little ideas in preschool and work your way up to bigger ideas throughout your life? This is because you need a background in the little ideas to understand the bigger ones. Being weened of little ideas take a while, but you never really loose your love of them (like you love boobs your whole life). God takes you from your mothers boob to prepare you for something better- your girlfriends pussy.
A virgin girl has to be willing to suffer a certain amount of pain to be penetrated for the first time. A virgin soul is the same way. The desire must overwhelm the fear of pain and injury. Desire for God is aroused by suffering, until the point that a soul willingly sees God complete control over it and finally trusts God to do what is right, even if the soul does not always know what that is.

To cause you to see things as God, instead of as a body, a sandwich, a game of cards and a bottle of whiskey. God will just 'punish' you until you realise God controls all, then God will lay you. You start out with the little ideas (sandwich, I'm hungry, this that, the other thing-oohh I want this!!!) and work your way up to wanting God as the suffering from the little things not satisfying you makes you want something more satisfying- when you realise you got God, well, your worries just sorta blow away and seem silly.

Really, the 'punishment' is just there to make you want to know God. Then you realise it was just hunger for what you really needed all along. Not knowing God is the punishment. God revealing God's self to you is the cure.

 

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Great topic. The Earth is Holy.

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