“Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”--Jesus Christ Boy George (remember the Culture Club?) thought of Quentin Crisp (The Naked Civil Servant) as a sort of modern queer Jesus. Actually, I don't think this is nearly as odd as it sounds: Quentin was a great spirit -- much condemned by society. He was (in fact) frequently beaten and bashed, during the sixty years he existed in England. Then he fled to America, and claimed everyone in New York is your friend. Quentin loved prostitutes and the homeless -- even as he was asked to star in Hollywood films. His phone number was listed, and he would chat with anyone that was brave enough to ring him up -- no matter the hour. Also, he personally answered every single note he ever received in the mail -- poet or prostitute -- he excluded nobody. Is this not very much like walking in the footsteps of Jesus? Anyway, I'd like to finally get to my point. Since Boy George compared Quentin to Jesus -- does this mean that Jesus was much more than a myth? I mean, many queers consider the life of Jesus -- a fabulous soap opera. Something that has no basis in fact. Now we all know there really was a Quentin Crisp. But was there ever an actual Jesus? I think there was. And even though I don't believe every word that has been written about him in the Good Book (some of those "miracles" seem a bit too manufactured for comfort), I think there really was a Jesus. And he was remarkable because he was not so quick to condemn and judge. Very much like Mr. Crisp. Except one died on a cross, while the other died in England. What do you think? Is the whole thing just a great big fairy tale? I'm really curious... "Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine."--Patti Smith --QP P.S. I already know what most straight Christians would say about the subject. But I genuinely want to hear the viewpoint of lesbians and queers, etc. Is Jesus much more than a myth? And do you agree that he would not judge someone harshly for being gay or lesbian? Or has organized religion -- ruined Jesus (for you) for ever?
Jesus Christ might be the imaginary name for a person who didnt exist...Like he was just created for a person who wants to take the next step spiritually for his or her next life and the bible is just something based around it or ive lost my mind.
Quentin Crisp was JC's rent boy. Back in the day. But seriously, I think we'll never know who Jesus was...and the official records of his life make him seem less than ideal as a gay icon. Look within. Find God on your own. You don't need me to tell you this.
Well, I do pray every day. And before I became ill: I was a volunteer at a homeless shelter, and attended church on a regular basis. Also, I did a lot of personal study (probably read every single book at the main public library about Mother Teresa, Thomas Merton, Buddhism, The Lives of the Saints, etc.). And I was still left with a great big question mark. I mean, Thomas Merton and Mother Teresa were two very intelligent and compassionate people. And they believed in the life of Jesus. This made me think maybe he really did exist, and there was much more to him than mere myth. However, a few years back, a book by Mother Teresa was published. She had written several heartfelt letters about how she doubted Jesus ever loved her, and even questioned the existence of God. She was a saint without faith. Which made her even more complex (IMO). Actually, she had requested that all her letters be burned. But they were saved against her wishes, and published a decade after her death. I've always had a strong attraction to Catholicism and Buddhism. And the life of Jesus -- seemed especially remarkable to me. But I had a tough time believing every word written about his life (his mother was a virgin?). Of course, faith teaches us that God chose Mary to be the mother of Christ. But since we only have second and third hand accounts of what Jesus accomplished on this earth (every word he ever said -- is actually a quote. He did not write anything down for posterity -- or perhaps his writings were lost or destroyed?), it becomes even more difficult to decide if he ever really walked this earth. I suppose one must act on faith alone. But even Mother Teresa secretly had her doubts. This especially makes me wonder. --QP
Catchy Subject Line. I thought it was going to go into the old debate about "John, whom Jesus loved." John, Jesus' cute boy Lot's of debate about whether Jesus actually existed (Lack of direct Roman reference being a biggie). Also about the "disciple whom Jesus loved" and how that love manifested. Since nothing is provable - all unattributed hearsay - I would like to think that Jesus had a particularly close relationship with one of his disciples whom he loved, lying close to his breast. (BTW, I am not the first to draw this conclusion, nor am I alone in it.) When you consider the things attributed to the Essene Jesus that went against the constraints of his more orthodox religion, such as talking with and teaching women, hanging out with drunkards and prostitutes and teaching tolerance of those miscreants - then why not explore a more physical love of a cute young disciple? We may never know conclusively whether Jesus was an actual person or a myth - doesn't really matter 2K years into our cultural mythos does it. So, my idea about him doing sensual things with his disciples, like washing their feet or "loving" a particular young one, is as valid as anyone elses. Foot Play is so Sensual Now, sit and wait for the indignant Christians to verbally flay me - like they once did for real in the Dark Ages - to defend their most merciful and all-forgiving god. BTW - ↓I once looked like Jesus
Great thoughts and pics, Shale. The "washing of the feet" story is a rather erotic one. Although I guess the usual response is that Jesus was not only saying that humility is a good thing, but actually practicing what he taught. I once knew a young minister (30 years ago), and he insisted on washing my feet -- along with half a dozen others waiting their turn. He did the modern version (a mop bucket with lots of Lysol in warm water). It felt strange to me. Especially since his wife was watching the whole thing happen. But I did walk away from the experience -- feeling profoundly humbled. I was nobody. And this highly respected straight minister -- did things to my feet nobody had ever done before. And I've known quite a few kinky queers. Also, Jesus was in the habit of camping out with men (except for the odd female prostitute or two), and was extremely close to his mother. On the surface, his life does seem a tad homo-erotic. In fact, Mapplethorpe tapped into this image of Jesus (and the lives of certain male saints) as a gay man. Catholicism was a huge part of Mapplethorpe's self-portraits. That's why it was so ironic that his work was often considered obscene. In truth, he was a deeply religious man. As was Andy Warhol. Anyway, we will never know if Christ ever experienced physical love. The Catholic church would never allow such a thing to be known. Especially since there has been so much recent scandal with priests having sex with boys. However, I will say that I find the empty tomb theory -- much harder to believe (than Jesus loving another man). Being a prophet is a lonely thing. And I see Jesus as a prophet. So if he wanted to do more than just give a man a quick hug -- I don't see this as a horrible sin. Nobody is in a position to cast that first stone. --QP P.S. My personal theory about the crucifixion is that Jesus came close to dying on the cross, but ultimately survived. And his flock rescued him, after he was placed in the tomb. This would explain all the "sightings" after his body disappeared. Of course, no church will ever fess up to this possibility. Jesus is not allowed to be mortal. The empty tomb is proof He really is the Son of God. Yet Christ remains tardy for his own Second Coming. Must we wait another 2K years?
My Jesus look is coming togehter as well lol....But for real Jesus Christ could just be the name of the man in the painting and thats the name thats given to a person who believes in past lives, heaven, hell and voodoo shit...Like if i wanted to come back in my next life as a Lord in heaven of some kind id follow Jesus Christism and when i respawn i come back as a dude with Holy hair...That religion could just be a giant misunderstanding...Or he was real living person and thats a crazy thought to have...Or reality is just a big mind fuck
I think Jesus really existed. But I don't believe he was placed on earth by God -- to die for the world's sins. He seemed more like a prophet or saint (IMO). Also, contemporary Christianity has very little to do with the teachings of Christ. People do horrible things to one another, and many of these people call themselves Christians. Jesus didn't condemn prostitutes. He saved them (literally). Jesus didn't damn criminals straight to hell. He told them there was a place in paradise for them. Also, he was one of the first advocates for the poor and homeless. And instead of hating his critics and enemies, he spoke of forgiving them. It's no wonder he was condemned to death: He made the Romans look like cold blooded thugs. Plus he didn't help matters by speaking like a poet. Many of his words were profoundly misunderstood, and this only served to make his enemies dislike him even more. It also gave them power. You couldn't claim to be the Son of God, and expect to be a popular figure. It was a very dangerous thing to do. In fact, it's still dangerous. They used to crucify people like Jesus. Now they medicate them, until they're too numb to speak or act in any significant way. In a way, Mother Teresa was more clever. She pretty much practiced what Jesus preached, but she did her best not to make enemies among the rich and powerful. She had a gift for making people want to help her in her mission to serve the poorest of the poor. And she spoke in a simple language people could understand. She always said there was nothing special about being a saint: That we all have that potential within us. So she was less of a threat -- and was allowed to live. Jesus was more confrontational. That's the big difference (IMO). --QP
Well, JC was apparently mid 30s, no wife, no kids, no girlfriend, strong empathy to women, caring, sensitive, calm Sounds like a lot of gay guys I know
You know, I never really thought of Jesus in those terms. But you are right: His "biography" does seem more than a bit gay. I've read several accounts of gay monks. Most did not actually have sex with other men, but the desire was still there. So if Jesus actually was a gay prophet -- that certainly would add an ironic spin to the history of Christianity. I mean, Christians would be condemning Christ -- every time they condemned homosexuals. --QP
Then there are the "Mysteries" One actually happened on this thread. Someone had made Bible quotes and I built on that by quoting "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you," extrapolating that it was similar to "The Force." From there I made a correlation that Jesus was a Gay Jedi Knight. (You know that Star Wars is some ppl's religion - and that Jesus, like Obi Wan Kenobi allowed himself to be killed) Now the above was not all serious, but prolly no more irreverent than many other posts on this thread. Don't know why Jesus zapped it out but it has been noticed missing by others as well as me.
I noticed a couple of comments had suddenly vanished. And it did seem odd. Perhaps we should chalk it up to divine intervention? Which is proof that Jesus really did/does exist? Actually, I'm convinced he did walk this earth. But I see him as a sort of male Mother Teresa. He accomplished great things, and did his best to make the world a better place for all. I just don't believe everything written about him in the Good Book -- is meant to be taken literally. That's why I compared him to a poet/prophet. Am I the only gay person to feel this way? --QP
In regards to Shale looking more like James: I've searched the internet, and James and Jesus might as well be twins. Is there an image I have missed that might convince me that Shale looked more like James than Jesus? It's sort of tricky: There were no cameras 2K years ago. --QP
How do you know that? Just cos someone relays a story, doesnt mean all parts are true, you have to take into account the things people will never admit to another soul, especially when it comes to sex Its the brutal truth of the matter, shield from the kids they probably are following a gay prophet until they marry, breed, mortgage themselves to the hilt and get to an age where they finally realise no one else really gives a toss and that half the congregation the entire time was running around fiddling with others that werent their partners, same sex or opposite sex, which was ok in their minds as long as no one else finds out I can remember going about two years still pretending I believed in santa cos I knew at age 4 if I admitted otherwise to my parents I would have got less presents the following Christmas
^^^ Of course we cant really prove Santa doesnt exist, maybe its the case that everyone on the planet has been a naughty boy/girl since the age of 5 and thats why no one has gotten presents from him since
