Fighting in Kashmir

I have different reasons for loving both India and Pakistan. When I think of architecture, I always remember India and then quickly remember that parts of India are not recommended for travel by official standard of state department. Pakistan is also more than K2, but I know too that it can be dicey by standards common to travel evaluations.

It can change each day and it can change from week to week where one is too dangerous, bad, and sad, and then slowly everyone trickles back into their favorite cafe or like me just holed up in the hotel and fine ordering warm food brought.

There is a disputed area.

It reminds me of other times where the same area is controlled by one or the other and then fighting.

We should talk about what would stop this and maybe first what will pause and then with sanity restored try to solve the problem and address the areas of disagreement with sincerity.

 

I don't think this will blow up too much more. The consequences are too severe for everyone.

I was surprised that Pakistan could shoot down those Indian fighter jets, supposedly top of the line. Were they Russian planes?

 

Holy shit! Pakistan used recently purchased Chinese fighter jets to shoot down as many as five Indian jets in that encounter yesterday. The missiles used were Chinese too.

They managed to take down at least one French Rafale fighter jet that had attacked terrorist camps in Kashmir.

This is the first live air to air combat kill for the Chinese jet. I bet the Indians are shocked! China has the latest tech, and now so does Pakistan.

Let's not forget both countries have hundreds of nukes aimed at each others cities. In case of use, there will be NO TIME to run or hide. The countries border each other. The fallout would drift over both countries. Nuclear winter would last for years.

 

Now they're reporting that it was a dogfight with up to 125 jets lobbing missiles for over an hour.

Now the borders of both countries have been shut, ambassadors recalled, and tensions at boiling point!

 

There is a lot of propaganda and media disinformation. I even came across a video saying that Pakistani army has entered India and the Indian army has surrendered, which is not true.

I would suggest waiting a few days patiently so that the dust will settle down and we can get a clearer picture of the situation.

Though the situation is dangerous, I would say that the situation in Ukraine is more dangerous considering that Russia has the largest nuclear arsenal in the world, and a nuclear holocaust wiping out the belligerents is a high possibility.

The UN has become a superficial organisation not having the leaders or the resources to achieve its objectives of maintaining peace and nonviolence in the world.

I think there should be renewed focus on secular spirituality and human values in the world under the present circumstances so as to remove the blinkers related to religious and political conditioning, which is responsible for most conflicts at present.

 

This is true. India's jungles and animal reserves have lions, tigers, leopards, cheetahs, bears, elephants and rhinoceroses. Only India at present has both lions and tigers in its jungles.

So yes, there are safety issues if one is not prudent and has not researched the place they are visiting including its threats or threat assessment, and do not adopt safety measures.

However there are safety issues for the animals as well due to increased poaching and hunting.

 

Pakistan may not sponsor the group that is responsible in Pahalgam. That may be false.

I would not be surprised if there is ideological overlapping sentiment based in pretenses of culture in India.

I think the fighting should stop.

Pakistan does not stand for extremism. That is something they can pivot quickly.

India means to alleviate an attacking organization who operate from Pakistan.

And Kashmir is shared.

There doesn't need to be fighting.

Further, Pakistan could likely offer security about this. They do not sponsor the group.

Both can alleviate anger about this but not harbor extremism.

 

Tigers are really elegant, but you have to be careful - it's their jungle too!

I am more a Pakistan person, but it isn't as accessible - we're warned about travelling there because of kidnapping, and also some crime.

 

The biggest threats to human life in India are pollution, snakes and the occasional elephant, and of course humans themselves (terrorism, nationalism, religious intolerance.)

 

More humans fighting somewhere? How surprising, since humans are generally so peaceful.

 

India and Pakistan have bin in skirmish about khasmir........since whenever...........blame the Brithish

Biggest scare is they both have nuclear capabiltity s..........Thanks to the Dutch





Mzzls

 

India and Pakistan each have about 170 nuclear weapons. A nuclear war between India and Pakistan would kill 50 to 125 million people, and produce smoke from fires in cities and industrial areas. That smoke would rise into the stratosphere, the atmospheric layer above the troposphere where we live, which has no rain to wash out the smoke. The smoke would block out the sun, making it cold, dark and dry at Earth’s surface, choking agriculture for five years or more around the world. The result would be global famine.A nuclear war between India and Pakistan could kill one to two billion people through starvation in the two years after the war.

India and Pakistan Remind Us We Need to Stop the Risk of Nuclear War
https://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/IndiaPakistanBullAtomSci.pdf
India and Pakistan - Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation
Could India, Pakistan use nuclear weapons? Here’s what their doctrines say

 

The only use for nuclear weapons is as a deterrent. If you have to use them, you've already lost

 

All these issues boils down to conditioning.

Children are naturally innocent and unconditioned, and if you put white, brown, black, hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Christian, American, Russian, Chinese children in a room, they will start interacting and playing with each other.

After a few years and beliefs injected by social, religious and political conditioning, they will start hating each other passionately due to the dualistic perspective of 'us versus them' brought about by belief systems.

The degree of unconscious hate and violence is proportionate to the degree of dualistic perspective inculcated by the belief system.

Brenton Tarrant was an Australian white extremist who killed over 51 muslims and injured over 89 others in the Christchurch mosque shootings in 2019 in two consecutive mass shootings.

Christchurch mosque shootings - Wikipedia

Tarrant was conditioned by extremist racist literature and propagandists. If it weren't for the conditioning he would have been an innocent person minding his own business.


Similarly, A Sri Lankan Buddhist manager named Priyantha Kumara working in Pakistan was lynched by his own workers in 2021 and burnt to death over baseless claims of blasphemy, after he removed a religious political poster next to his office as part of maintaining corporate values, hygiene and work culture.

The poster however had a few verses of the quran, which the Sri Lankan had no idea of, and this resulted in his alleged blasphemy, mob lynching and death.

Lynching of Priyantha Kumara - Wikipedia

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-...-workers-pakistan-garment-factory-2021-12-03/

Man tortured and killed in Pakistan over ‘blasphemy’

These are striking examples of the dehumanisation and brain damage caused by state and religious conditioning, developing in the process incoherence and absurd decision making, divisive conflicts and resultant bloodshed.

So I would say that peace and nonviolence in the world all boils down to deconditioning from religious, racial, political dualistic biases creating an 'us versus them' outlook.

As I said earlier, emphasis on secular and human values world-wide can perhaps play a major role in this regard to a large extent.

 

India says it took out 11 Pakistani air force bases after Pakistan sent 400 drones to cities in India

UPDATE; India says its campaign was successful because in addition to killing terrorists leaders, they used their navy to hit all over Pakistan with cruise missiles. Evidently the Pakistanis were taken by surprise and begged the world to help defuse the conflict.

Just another day on the subcontinent.
I remember when they played Cricket together, not all out war.

That is India's story anyway.

 

I think this is why we have 'mature content' without a lid or access barrier; so that interracial realities do not dominate sociability to put it very mildly.

'hate' is such a stupid thing.

As for blasphemy, "not guilty" works well.

He should have been advised. I think he was set up.

 

Lets take a hypothetical situation. How would you have advocated the lynched victim Priyantha Kumara's innocence prior to his lynching and saved him from the mob !

 

He was a Sri Lankan buddhist manager working there for seven years. Why should he be set up ?

There are similar examples of mob lynching of even muslims over blasphemy charges.

Mashal Khan was a Pakistani muslim and college student who was known for his secular and humanistic views, and was unfortunately submitted to a similar mob lynching over superficial blasphemy charges on facebook.

Lynching of Mashal Khan - Wikipedia.

Mushtaq Ahmed was a mentally ill Pakistani muslim who was lynched over blasphemy charges after he was accused by the custodian of a mosque of burning a Quran inside the building.

Lynching of Mushtaq Ahmed - Wikipedia

Asia Noreen Bibi was a Pakistani Christian woman who was accused and even convicted of blasphemy in a Pakistani court and sentenced to death by hanging.

Her crime was that , as the only christian in her village, she had reacted to criticism of Christianity by her muslim neighbors and even criticized Islam in the heat of the argument, and this criticism of Islam was interpreted as blasphemy leading to her being beaten by a mob, her later imprisonment, dubious prosecution and conviction of blasphemy with the death sentence. However those who had provoked her to the argument went scot free because they were privileged muslims.

Asia Bibi blasphemy case - Wikipedia

The governor of Punjab province in Pakistan, Salman Taseer and Shahbaz Bhatti, the only christian member of Pakistan's cabinet of ministers, had supported Asia Noreen and sought her pardon from her death sentence. Both were shot dead for their perceived 'offence' by Islamic militants within a year.

 

This is the only part of what I said you found interesting?

I also said:

This post is a challenge to blasphemy law? It feels like a lure into a doomed conversation.

To save the person, I would play as the community around him.

He could be advised and informed of the law.

In this case, he poorly understood his role.

He used a poster, but the meaning was misunderstood.

Did he know Quran would be a big issue?

I think he might have. The law didn't provide for leniency on the matter though.

The best thing would be to apprehend him for any breach quickly and cross reference, if it's a serious enough offense, his positions with the allegation.

Is he intentionally counter the state? Is he deliberately contrary its policy on blasphemy?

It is felt that his mention of verse was used out of context, and that the context for Quran is holy and there is nothing more sacred. As a Muslim this is important for me to know since I may go to a destination where it is averse to mention such, even if only by being American; guilty and guilty by association.

I remember one time I got into a situation as such. I wanted better treatment and said something about religion supporting my reason, "the Golden Rule is in both" or something like that.

 

"Why should he be set up?" He shouldn't, but likely was since popular opinion may be that Islam is the authority even if it is the religion.

Theocracy. This is always difficult for Americans. For me, a lynching is not as good as deportation. You accomplish the same thing. For Muslims in the conservative context, the offense is not correctible.

With that said, you would want to clearly define what is meant by such a law; what does it mean? What exactly would break such? Otherwise, someone could accidentally misunderstand and be in breach of the absolute nature of the mandate.

Blasphemy isn't excusable. Is the penalty death? It is and for a variety of very good reasons. But does that make K2 less approachable? Well, I have to watch what I say when the water leaks into my pack!

Yeah. The blasphemy law is a trigger.

The only good reason to go to Mosque is to pray! And so... it is known well enough that burning Quran cannot be. Why would you? But here, we suspect he is not of sound mind. In this particular case it is something we, as Pakistani, must forgive and learn that this man was not able to think well enough. He should have known, yes? Yeah. He probably did know. I wonder why he did that.

This is an obvious one to me. Islam trumps Christianity in the Muslim majority country.

Well, I'm not surprised but that is awful. The thing is we Westernize everything. Should I allow you to change Pakistan? No. Pakistan is Muslim and the forgiving of a perceived error is perhaps contrary its sovereignty.

But Pakistan is more accommodating than is the picture we've presented here.