You know those bits you get on a form that asks your ethnicity? Does anyone else find them offensive or pointless? Most of the time they miss out many ethnic groups plus they pay no attention to class or social heritage. To me all these sections seem to do is divide society even more and go against the whole idea of an integrated community. I've got one at the moment on my university placement request form and I've been told that it is compulsory for me to fill it in so that they can find me suitable placements ... with the current tide of positive discrimination this effectively means that because I am white I might be excluded from some organisations. Really doesn't sit comfortably with me and I fully intend to ignore the field as do a few of the others on my course (from all races) Any thoughts?
I find them stupid. If the courses or people sending out the forms have no idea what race you are then there is no way to discriminate against you reguardless of colour. Surely by filling in these forms it just gives them a way of classing people. Its like the idea of a company HAVING to employ a certain percentage of dissabled and multi-racial people. ...Now if i was either of those i would be worried incase i was only hired to fill up their percentage.
yes i get offended. I normally put 'Not Applicable' N/A. I know this has cost me job interviews in the past. Also had secretaries demand I complete it. Thats when I came up with the N/A. What winds me up even more is when they title that section "Equal Opportunities". If it was equal opportuinities WHY FUCKING ASK???
They usually make a point of stressing that the information is used for statistical analysis alone and won't affect the application process in any way. Yeah I find it offensive too because it demonstrates that they are not blind to race if they do actually care what the percentage ethnic makeup of their workforce is. But I don't think it is a sign of 'positive' discrimination (a misnomer if ever there was one). Perhaps I'm being too trusting?
The idea is that certain ethnic groups are under-represented in certain industries (for example, the police) Therefore they discriminate positively in the favour of this group to prove that they are taking part in "anti-discriminatory practice". I think that all they really do is pigeon-hole people into categories that only divide people even more, thus prolonging the problem that they were trying to solve. What has annoyed me more, (especially as this is a social work degree and I am only a trainee) is that I've found out that some welfare groups can specifically and legally request that placement students be of certain ethnicity, (eg you can only go and train there if you are a black woman etc.)
Generally universities don't use positive discrimination like that. They use these ethnic monitoring schemes to ensure that the application process is not racist and is people get in based on talent and potential, not because of the colour of their skin....
Generally that may well be the case. In this instance we have been told that it is specifically for positive discrimination purposes. Even if I was to agree with that principle, I would still be there as a trainee not as an employee, anything I do there is about learning ... so I could be excluded from learning about the needs of a particular culture because I was born to the wrong parents
re-read what you just wrote. they use it to assure its not racist.... how would they KNOW if they were discriminating for you against your race if they didnt know what your race was? as was said... why do they need to ask?
"Positive discrimination" for employment purposes is illegal in the UK. I think they have a version of it in the States which is legal. As for the selection policies of universties, I don't think there are the same legal safeguards.
They've had positive discrimination in parliament for new jobs. If a woman and a man had an equal level of aptitude for the new position, the woman was chosen. ...illegal?
So what about the metropolitan police directive that is steamrolling more people from ethnic minority groups into joining the cops? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/276614.stm
hmmmm. here's where i'm now stuck. isn't this a good thing in this particular situation Paul? I don't see it as comparable to the other situations spoken of. I'm not contradicting myself, just saying not everything is so black and white. oops, no pun no pun, ahhh, i'm going to get some food, hunger is obviously affecting me!!
I was just pointing out that if it was illegal then it wouldn't be the case. However I'm still not sure whether it is or isn't a good thing. On the surface I can see the reasoning behind it, but my fear is that because of the actions of a few fascist pigs, white people may now have to take a back seat when applying for work, regardless of how well they might be able to do a job.
Yes in general it is illegal in the UK. The US version I was thinking of is called "affirmative action". Here's what a quick search has found - from a FAQ from the Equal Opportunities Commission which is talking about sex discrimination. I guess there are similar provisions under the race relations legislation: In general, positive discrimination to favour one sex is not lawful. There are limited exceptions allowing discrimination in training, or encouragement to apply for particular work in which members of the relevant sex are under-represented. These lawful exceptions are often referred to as positive action. The positive action provisions are contained in Part V of the SDA. [Sex Discrimination Act] http://www.eoc.org.uk/cseng/legislation/the_sex_discrimination_act_an_overview.asp
Interesting ... here are the exemptions from the illegality of "positive" racial discrimination in the workplace which might explain the examples cited: From http://www.cipd.co.uk/subjects/dvsequl/relgdisc/Racereligemplmnt.htm
No i will give my details over beause i am what i am (gLoria gaynor stylee) it souldnt be an issue but is because commisioning bodies want to know to provide serivices.....by the way whitebritish when inputted on computer in my local authority reads back as A1
Couldn't agree more dude, couldn't agree more. Though I would say it is more pointless than it is offensive. I find it offensive because it is pointless, but not necessarily because I think it's racist or not. Those forms can be really stupid because they'll have one box for 'white' then it's like 'black-African', 'black-carribean', 'black-other'...what the hell!!??? Why does 'black' need like three catagories and 'white' only one? Why isn't there a 'white'-aryan/blonde' or 'white-brunette' or 'white-ginger'? Especially given the fact that white people with blonde or ginger hair are frequently discriminated against (i.e. the blonde-haired-girls-are-dumb stereotype). Futhermore they don't seem to cater very well for the many people in the world who have a very mixed ethnic background, usually you just get a box saying 'other-please specify', but what if you are in ethnicity terms : one eigth caucasian, one eighth hispanic, one eighth oriental, one eighth aborigine, one eighth latino, one eighth melanese, one eighth arabic and one eighth native american? Hmmmm, that would be a hell of a lot to write now wouln't it, and in any case WHY IS ETHNICITY SO RELLEVANT ANYWAY? This is something I've discovered not just on application forms, but everywhere. I get questioned upon my ethnic background way too often and I can't understand why it's so important to some people. I'm just a guy at the end of the day. I mean, you could say the 'male/female' boxes are pretty irrelevant as well, especially as you always give your name, which in the vast majority of cases can enable the reader to establish that you are MALE or FEMALE, but again, that isn't very important is it? Besides, what the hell is somebody who is transexual supposed to write? You can guarantee those people would be disadvantaged in terms of getting a job or educational placement! I do appreciate schools, colleges and other institutions which are trying to initiate a prejudice free environment but some of them are just exacerbating the problem by over-emphasising the need to know one's race or sex, or by using positive discrimination. You guys have raised some excellent points though and I'm glad I'm not isolated in terms of my resentment of this pointless ethnicity/gender scrunity horsey-poo.
The thing with gender is that there are physiological differences between men and women that occasionally need to be taken into consideration - especially in the caring profession. Ethnicity is so different though, culture is learned behaviour, skin colour is irrelevent ... so the only purpose knowing this would really serve would be because of language or religious issues ... in which case why not just ask what languages you speak or if you have any religious needs? It seems to me that the system loves to shout out about the multicultural society but all they really do is divide people even more. I think I'm gonna put "British working class" in the box and see what they make of that
