"escaping reality" my ass.

I was thinking--People always say that when you are using drugs you are "escaping reality." I get mad about that. Drugs are basically chemicals that we add to our bodies. Our bodies always have a mix of chemicals in them. When we change that mix by adding drugs, our perception of reality changes. However, who is to say that the particular perception of reality that we see when we have the standard mix of chemicals in our bodies, is any closer to reality, as it exists out there without anybody percieving, than the perception of reality that we see when we have added a drug to that mix? When a person is on LSD and sees a purple elephant float by, who is to say that that purple elephant wasn't already floating by, and LSD merely enabled the person to see it? It is known that our current mix of chemicals does not allow us to percieve the "full" world, that is, we can't see ultraviolet, we can't hear above or below certain frequencies, we can't percieve radio waves, and so on. So if we know that what we see, hear, taste, feel and otherwise percieve is not precisely identical to what is actually there, why do we insist that when we alter our chemical mix, the things that we percieve are "fake" or "not reality"? How is it that the particular perception of reality that most humans share is absolutley the "real" one? We must assume that the world exists in some way regardless of how we percieve it--that is to say, even if we all were blind, the world would still have colors and light. So why do we insist that those things which we can't normally see or percieve are fake? Why do we insist that by using drugs we are "escaping reality" when we are actually merely viewing reality through a different lens? To use a lens analogy: The world exists out there, and if we could just view it as it exists, that would be seeing it through the clear lens. But we see it instead through the human lens, lets call it the blue lens, and this blue lens filters out things like ultraviolet, radio waves, and so on. When we see the world through the Human-with-LSD lens, lets call it the red lens, we see the world differently, but still, we are merely seeing the same world through a different lens, not seeing a whole new world. I use marijuana not to escape reality but to help me see reality in a better way.

 

is it even possible to escape reality? death.. mabye more of a severe reality after death who knows.

but very good point...Bill will like this one =)

 

that's really interesting, i've never thought about reality that way.

 

thats just druggy talk


of course what the majority see as the "norm" is perceived as reality

who knows, some scitzophrenic person who sees visions of aliens and giant carrots eating 10 foot tall bunny rabbits could be what is actually going on, but since the majority dont see it that way, thats not how it is

ppl who say they use drugs to "escape reality" arent really doing what they say, they are merely impairing their own judgement to a point where whats usually normal, doesnt seem so

 

i use drugs to embrace life and reality

 

another topic that has no definite answer. this discussion could go on forever. the point is that everything is relative and subjective. the concept of reality is vague, and it's definition may vary with different people..
weed doesn't necessarily help me escape reality, but it allows me to see things from a different, more refreshing perspective.

 

Henry yo I like what you wrote man
shit, i really enjoyed it =p

i don't know about other people, but for me personally, when i use marijuana too much it has negative effects that i think outweigh the positives.

but if used in the moderate sense (this is different for different people i think--to an extent) then i also think it helps see and perceive reality in a better way

oh, and in your lens analogy, i don't quite look at the blue and red lens differently, cuz the i feel the blue lens is always there. the miarjuana is influencing me
so maybe like a mix or some kind of fusion or dots or cracklles or something of lens colors


keep up with the progressive and radical thinking i like it
its different from the way i think we're taught and the way society acts....its so fucked up man!

 

i dont need drugs to escape reality that's what tv and imagination are for. just facing reality is fine. i use drugs to relax more efficently

nice thinking but lsd fucks up the mind in a way of activating your dreaming capapilities wich come from your concious so there never was a pink elephant in the first place

 

ill make a response later, but for now, consider that it is not our brains that filter colours or radiowaves, but our eyes and ears.

not to say that im dissagreeing, though i am, but im not agreeing with what is opposite.. if you know what i mean. anyway ill get back to this one

 

that was beautifully written
mad props

 

This is of course an important topic, but many drug users accept the notion that theyre escaping reality, and in many ways for some, they are. but this all comes down to what we can discern reality is, and what teh word reality is used to represent. before adressing directly the heart of OP, id like to define my own reference to 'reality'.

There is an objective and subjective reality, the objective one being that which we all experience outside of ourselves. this is universal amongst all humans. what is different for everyone however is the subjective reality, the one we experience from within ourselves. our perception of the outside world. this is the only one we can experience, but by correlating subjective experiences under objective conditions, we can theoretically experience the objective reality to the extent of our correlation.

if an elephant walks past a person, light from around the elephant reflects off its skin and some will enter the person's eye. wavelengths in this light which correspond to receptors in the retina will excite neurons behind the eye which will connect to the rear end of the brain. these are the inputs into the subjective reality. we then interpret these signals and perceive an elephant.

however teh signals of an elephant can stem from sources in the brain instead of the eye. an elephant may be where an elephant is not. so what is the difference between seeing a real elephant or seeing an imagined elephant, if BOTH are actually just perceptions of the brain, neither more objectively real than the other - they are both just perceptions, thoughts.

the difference is that as far as the person's objective existance is concerned (and thus teh existance of their subjective reality), the elephant only exists as an elephant (a large living creature) if it is in the objective reality and observed through the eye.

but if they are both thoughts, how can we say one is more 'real' than the other? well the most important thing about the objective reality is its universal nature. other people will not see the same elephant if the elephant does not exist in the objective reality.

so whos to say that everyone is crazy except the person who sees the elephant?

well the only way for this to be the case would be if the hallucinated elephant resulted in an infinite number of subsequent hallucinations such as the feel of the elephant, the elephant shit on the grass, but perhaps most significant, the hallucination of having your bones crushed within you in the instance where the elephant fall s ontop of you.

if these hallucinations are concurrent, then there is nothing to say that in fact the hallucinations are real and everyone else is instead hallucinating the absence of the elephant.

i hope it is clear that it is ridiculous to try to test whether it can be determined if something is real or imagined.


with that concept out of the way, lets look at the focus of your thread, which is that drugs dont escape the objective reality, they give a different view of reality (they alter the subjective reality), for even when sober, we are only in one of many states of mind.
technically, this is true, and a significant realisation in my oppinion, for people to make.

however!
the fact that the SUBJECTIVE reality is altered is significant in LIFE. life is full of issues, emotions, problems, desires, concerns, judgements, etc. these are not real things but thoughts. they are not part of the objective reality but the subjective one, existing only as electrical impulses and chemicals in the objective reality.

but does this make them pointless?

if they effect your emotions, chances are they will effect your actions and thoughts more than anything in the objective reality.

when people take drugs, they alter their subjective reality.

many subjective realities while on drugs, do not involve painful emotions, concerns, issues, problems in LIFE. they reduce the negative feelings of these, this is why most people take drugs. to get rid of all the concerns they feel. concerns are not part of objective reality, so is this escaping reality?

its not escaping subjective reality either because subjective reality is constantly changing, and does not go anywhere.

so logically it couldnt really be escaping reality?

but what you are doing is escaping certain reactions of the subjective reality to the objective reality. your escaping your GRIP on reality, your ability to react to the reality that we all share, as opposed to that which each of us has own.


this will occur depending on the person, the motive, the drug itself, the use of the drug, etc.

i must stress that drugs DO NOT escape reality.

however, as far as aknowleging the detrimental effects that drugs CAN have on a person's ability to experience reality along with other human beings, there is a definate, and sometimes very dangerous risk of escaping reality.

 

This is so Brave New World.

Reality = popular opinion

 

This is pseudo-intellectual stoner mumbo jumbo; you took it too seriously bill. Tons of users exhibit obvious signs of escapism, it's pretty much the number one reason most people use. But hey that's just "popular opinion" lol.

 

When people say "escaping reality", they don't mean it in any literal sense. They just apply the term to sobriety. Marijuana changes your perception and enhances your senses, therefore getting away from "reality", as loosely as that term is played around with.

 

Wow.

There's a lot of stuff here.

I think that the original poster brought up a good point, and it has been discussed well so far.


On topic: I need to read Brave New World. I agree that "reality" is popular opinion, generally.

This is really hard to think about.

 

i just hit the bong and cant comprehend anything that has been written here.

 

That's probably for the best, man...

 

forget the word "reality." lots of drug users use drugs to escape "something." call it "reality" or call it something else--who cares. the point is still valid and reflects someone abusing drugs as opposed to using drugs.

 

ok i read like the first couple senteces but got lost in your massive paragraph.. yes it is possible to "escape reality" by doing drugs, youre putting yourself in your on world because getting stoned makes reality different than being sober.

what people mean by "escaping reality" or whatever is that youre depressed or have problems in your life that youre ignoring/forgetting about because youre getting stoned, thats escaping reality. and im too lazy to read any one elses posts so sorry if some one already said something along the lines of what i just said

 

if ANY of you are interested in the subject of drugs, i highly, HIGHLY suggest these 2 books by Andrew Weil: "The Natural Mind" and "The Marriage of the Sun and Moon." (in that order). also, if you want straight-up information on natural drugs, read his stuff. you-will-love-it.

(i dare you to read all of these quotes. there arent THAT many, i just dare you to read them! what do you say to that?!)

here´s a quote from "The Natural Mind" on this very same subject:
"A great many arguments against drugs turn out to be inadmissable. For example, the slogan that drugs are an "escape from reality" is really a heavily biased statement about consciousness change in which "reality" is equated with ordinary waking consciousness. Is is simply another expression of the fear and guilt all of us have; hence, it is above all emotional and obstructive of the rational process."

*he also writes a lot about how drugs do not produce highs, they just trigger them. these highs occur naturally in our bodies - we just dont know how to harness them. there are plenty of ways to produce natural highs (according to Andrew Weil): eating mangoes, eating chili peppers, laughing, meditation, runner´s high, ..... we may think that drugs produce these highs in our bodies, but it´s more like the "Pavlov´s dogs" situation. this way of thinking really does make a lot of sense when you think about it.

and Stoner Bill, you mentioned something about how it might not be the brain perceiving things differently, it´s your eyes and ears. here´s some food for thought in another quote on that by Andrew Weil:

"It would make more sense to look for effects not on the ear but rather on the part of the brain that processes auditory information. Cannabis seems to affect the secondary perception of sensory information, not the primary reception of it.... Under cannabis,... information may take novel routes to consciousness and thus be perceived in novel ways. Such a model would explain why users often say that under cannabis they see things for the first time "as they really are," or why they dwell on aspects of complex visual or auditory stimuli they would ordinarily ignore."
-from his article "Cannabis" from Science Journal


"I now understand that the intellect is merely the thought producer of the mind and that thoughts are not realities. In order to perceive reality directly, one must sooner or later learn how to abandon the intellect and disengage oneself from the thoughts it produces incessantly. All instructional materials on meditation stress this theme."

*he goes on to talk about how true and immediate experience is the only way to reach "reality." constantly thinking about reality doesnt get you anywhere really. you just need to let yourself experience it DIRECTLY (which goes to say "subjectively," too)


and the final quote:

"Consider this: By an extraoridnary coincidence, the sun and moon appear to us to be the same size in the sky. The Sun´s vast distance from us exactly compensates for its much greater diameter, so that it appears no bigger than the moon. If this relationship did not hold, total eclispes of the sun would not occur. Human consciousness has developed on the one planet where the lights that rule day and night are equal."
-"The Marriage of the Sun and Moon"


now take a look at Dr. Weil:

who wouldn´t want to read something by him? (or hug him?)

(i dared you to read all the quotes so you would, in fact, read them all. i wanted that to be enough to entice you to read those books because they´re that good. seriously. for all you cheaters who just read this part of my post, go back and read them!)