Enlightenment

only through suffering can we create something beautiful.

create create create. and keep creating. never stop.

if you stop, you die.

understand that zen is life, thus everything you do is meditation.

enlightenment is concious death

enlightenment is creating something not out of nothing, but out of yourself.

once you've killed yourself conciously, you can really live without suffering.

once you've killed yourself conciously, you can create things from your soul




anything on this forum is art. thus, everyone who has ever created anything is enlightened. the key to enlightenment is that we are all already enlightened.

you just have to realize it.





to live is to suffer

to die is to become enlightened.

kill your ego while you live and you will become everlasting.

 

that is another awesome post.... i'm an artist, and my best friend brought up a good point; being an artist is being like a god, so to speak; creating something from nothing.

 

The artist needs an ego. An artist must believe that they are right and their idea or feeling internally is important and prolific enough to be expressed externally. You get rid of the ego and the artist has no internal justification to express themselves in an external manner.

And to truly reach enlightenment, one must unite their soul with an oatmeal cookie.

 

to rid yourself of ego, all you have to do is realize it is there, then breath it out of you. thus, you are pure. ego is the only problem man has. it is what brought us here, to hell. adam at the fruit. adam caused the big bang. adam is evil. man is evil. man is mankind. mankind is evil. take money out of the situation and you have bliss.

 

Without the Ego you lose sight of the individual.

 

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Without the Ego you lose sight of the individual false self and only then can one become enlightened. Attached to the ego, man fails miserably as he separates himself from all that is.


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You are my brother joo as I am yours. I am only here to speak the truth to the best of my ability. It is difficult ( in the U.S. especially with the bombardment of capitalism ) to not be tempted and sidetracked by one's own will...



Peace, Love and Creativity

 

I think perhaps I am referring to ego in a different term. When I speak of the ego I do so as the ego defined in psychoanalytic theory which I believe to be what the ego really is. What a lot people refer the the ego(an ascension of superiority or something to that degree) I would just call arrogance and not ego. All an ego really is the means in which an individual expresses their internal feelings,ideas,motivation etc. externally.

And to Joseph, I am quite an anti-capitalist however, I am also an individualist.

 

you are both enlightened, you are both saying the same idea

the problem is:

you're using words. which were created by man. which are unholy.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mm9RqatOby0

 

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LOL: Yes, I do believe an oatmeal cookie may just do the trick ! As long as it has all the necessary ingredients...

You know, like raisins and cinnamon...:whistling


Great discussion !

I am a visual artist and a writer. The reason I'm here is to gather other's perspectives and to provide my own. Through this process my intention is to improve my mental health, realize my spirituality, to be happy. If I can help another person to do the same and/or minimize the pitfalls of the ignorant choices I have made in my life... that would be rewarding.

I always find it difficult to express exactly what I am attempting to express. As a disclaimer, I can only use words as signposts to point in the general direction.

Art...a powerful tool to unify or divide. Love or to hate. To expand or oppress consciuosness. It can create feeling. It can be beautiful or ugly... it can be all things in between.

Speaking for myself, I feel a certain responsibility as a visually gifted human being. A responsibility to unify, to love, or to expand consciousness. I feel this way because I BELIEVE ( at this point anyhow ) that this is God's will... and I KNOW ( right now ) that to do God's will is my ONLY path to real and honest HAPPINESS.

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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ego

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My will, my mind... my ego as I refer to it here has brought me pleasure at times, usually followed by some sort of pain. Pain and self-destruction have been my motivation for many of the choices I have made in my life.

Today I have hope...


I am a recovering alcoholic and drug addict.


I have battled demons since early on. I had a weight problem in grade school of which I was rediculed. My father died when I was 10. A Catholic priest molested me at 16. All of these seemingly 'bad' situations & events among myriad others have had weight upon my self image, my identity... my ego.

At some point, after hopelessness set in, my Ego surrendered and 'separated' during prayer with other recovering alcoholics. Today I am fortunate to be alive and am certainly living a better life than if I was still 'asleep'. My Ego is still there although it no longer has 'total' control of my thinking...

~+

All of us have have been injured in some way. At the bare minimum by society as a whole.


~+

Until an artist can identify and separate his/her true inner self ( God, the original source, the universe or whatever you want to call it ) from the false self, he or she will reflect this false identity in thier art. There is nothing wrong with this although it can be dangerous and/or injurious to the host as the mind becomes further rooted in self and potentially spirals out of control.

I would surmise that most art and music is a combination of both the inner self ( God ) and the false self ( Ego )

Negativity and sorrow, pain, resentment, destruction. All of these are the predominant expression of the planet. So many people are fixated on this that it may be an easier sell, financially and otherwise. We are little more than savage animals if left to our own best thinking.


Real genius comes from a higher power and you are a part of, not separate from it, unless you choose to be...


Messages of hope and love, brother/sisterhood, rebirth. These attributes are rare but beginning to emerge as our planet continues to be pummeled by financial interests, religious zealots, apathy etc.



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Joseph I hear you man. The ego is a valuable tool in society and in life. But artistically speaking, I think the deepest truest statements are those made not from expression ones individuality, but the expression of Universal truth...I kind of think there is sort of a well of beauty and truth out there and great artists are simply the people who have found out how to tap into that universal resourse. Nothing wrong with a more ego driven or shallow form of art, as they certainly have their place. But no, the ego is not necessary to create great works of art..not even close.

 

I don't agree with that at all. But I'm sure you could read my other posts to know why. I don't believe in shallow art either.

 

what do you mean you don't 'believe' in shallow art?

 

Because I don't know what would be described as shallow art. Would Warhol fit into that as he did screen printing? Or what about abstract expressionism? Or any type of art that isn't topical? Is Led Zeppelin more shallow then Charlie Parker?

 

nothing is shallow art
shallow art is nothing
joseph, you are my brother.

 

Have you guys ever read Oscar Wilde?

 

I think there certainly is shallow art, because there are shallow aspects of life that are very real and worth expressing.

 

What I am hearing you say ( in relation to my post ) is that when an artist's objective is to express his individuality or to 'break from the pack', perhaps a break from conformity, by means of his own intellect ( the ego ) that this art cannot have the depth in meaning, character, spirituality etc. of that which is derived from a higher consciousness.

This process of creativity will invariably be shallow in comparison to what the artist can achieve by the aid of a greater force. The ego wants to deny this because it is threatening to it's survival.

When the ego attacks us in this manner we begin to believe it as the truth. Example: If I create critically acclaimed artwork that is really different and created solely on my own intelligence ( which would probably be impossible anyhow ) lots of people will like me, I will get lots of attention, be successful with the ladies blah, blah, blah...

This was EXACTLY my thinking for many years. I won a national portfolio competition and scholarship to a prestegious art college. My spatial relationships IQ was at 190 yet my best thinking was only self-defeating in terms of fine art so as a result I could not create a work ethic to be successful. I remember at 18 comparing myself to Picasso, "He was doing great artworks when he was 12! I'm a loser." LOL


.....................................................................................correct, this is me jerking myself off in the old days.............................................................................


One thing I like about forums is the challenge of expressing this stuff I want to say accurately. Even at 45, I struggle. Many times I still look up words I took for granted as understanding because I want to be really clear on the definition.

This particular discussion is one containing words that can have a major impact on the quality of an artist's ( or anyone's ) life in terms of it's bottom line: happiness.

To be happy you MUST be honest with yourself. If you are not honest with yourself how could you possibly KNOW what makes you happy? This is where we have to wrap our heads around the fact that many things in this life that PLEASE us, might make us happy, but for only brief periods in the greater scheme of things.

 

you do not need to kill your ego to achieve enlightenment.
you need to accept it, and love it, and realize it is what makes you unique, and realize that it is in perfect harmony with all of your self and all of the universe, and that all is perfect, that all that is is singing with your soul, and thus all is one.

 

I think there is some degree of truth to what everyone is saying here...But its hard to have this converstion, especially over the internet, because well everyone has their own idea of what the "ego" or "enlightenment" really is. I totally agree with zilla, that 'enlightenment' is not so much learning about something outside of yourself, as it is accepting the entire organism of the Universe, which is a part of you, and of which you are part. But, I think there are also different levels of enlightenment and universal understanding...Do you understand the Universe in relation to yourself, do you understand yourself in relation to the Universe, or do you understand the entire thing where the individual you is of microscopic significance?

Joseph, I agree it is very difficult to express some of these things we are thinking, because I don't think they were ever meant to be put into words. But yes, you understood what I was trying to say. Im not trying to degrade art that is simply individual expression. It is beautiful and necessary and a wonderful part of life, but in a relative sense, these kinds of expressions are shallow compared to expressions of universal truth. I wish I could come up with some different words to say that, but you know...

And just cause im wondering...If you think there are no forms of shallow art, would you say that Kenny G, Bach, Miles Davis, and Eminem all have essentially the same level of depth to their work??