Different conceptions of God

Why has God given us differing concepts of God?

What are your personal concepts of God?

 

Has God given us these, or have we come up when them to suit our own behavior, thoughts, location, etc?
That comes to another question; do you believe in "free thought" or that God inspires all things (that is except demonic thought)?

 

If all the faiths on earth are a circle, then I see the Great Spirit as a dot in the center, showing a different view to each one of us. This is perfectly sensible to me, as we all see the world from our own unique vantage point, all are one of a kind, and all have experienced things no one else can ever truly know. If the face of the Great Spirit was one size fits all, humanity would have to be homogeneous for all of us to be in contact. But, thankfully, the world is full of a diverse array of cultures, peoples, and faiths. This requires a myriad variety of concepts of God. So, I feel, we can all have different images, concepts, and relationships with God, and all be totally correct. Atheists are just as righteous and correct as theists, cuz their path is for them alone to know, and not for others to dictate or judge.
All individuals, all different, all with beliefs that are equally valid, true, and good. Of course, my personal view is that hatred, harmful actions, and negativity are not the way to go. But, I have no control over those who choose to pursue these things, and can only state my observations. Love is the only way, it is the only cure for hate and fear.
Peace to you all.
Mitakuye Oyasin.
Here's my concept of Spirit.

 

God is beyond concepts. But we need concepts because we are thinking creatures.

So we say God is this or that. Whilst some of what we say might describe some partial aspect of God, we can never have a concept that fully describes God. He is beyond our limited minds to express. We can form only a limited idea of what God is.

 

I've seen enough 'organized events' (spectacular coincidences) happen in my life that could not have happened without either A) a massive conspiracy by humans (which does not seem likely) or B) God is controlling and organizing the events that happen. If God is the one organizing the events, then all of our thoughts and actions must mesh perfectly to have us be in the right place at the right time. That means from one thought to the next, the thoughts are being guided by God.

I believe God inspires all things including demonic thought. Unfortunately thoughts arise about concepts that are not fully formed in our minds and this is "demonic thought". Here is a close anology to a thought that appears to be correct to the thinker, but is wrong and has no significant positive effect (besides learning that the thought was wrong).
From a Caltech commencment address by Richard Feynman:
"I think the educational and psychological studies I mentioned are examples of what I would like to call cargo cult science. In the South Seas there is a cargo cult of people. During the war they saw airplanes with lots of good materials, and they want the same thing to happen now. So they've arranged to make things like runways, to put fires along the sides of the runways, to make a wooden hut for a man to sit in, with two wooden pieces on his head to headphones and bars of bamboo sticking out like antennas--he's the controller--and they wait for the airplanes to land. They're doing everything right. The form is perfect. It looks exactly the way it looked before. But it doesn't work. No airplanes land. So I call these things cargo cult science, because they follow all the apparent precepts and forms of scientific investigation, but they're missing something essential, because the planes don't land. "

So 'demonic thought' can arise from a child not understanding it's punishment or the limits set for it's benefit. The child get's angry with the caregiver because of perceived slights, although the caregiver is doing what is right for the child. I get pissed at God constantly, and even though I know God is doing the best that God can for me, I still get angry with God for not doing better.

 

I think atheism, or at least the ability to suspend belief in God, is a gift. How else could we enjoy a movie about Sith and Jedi, or read a series such as Joel Rosenberg's Guardians of the Flame?

The pain you have felt gives you a remoteness from God, like a disassociative anesthetic, that allows you to imagine other worlds without dismissing them as sheer idiocy. This raises the question: is the pain worth it, or is God just a creative asshole who so want's to show off God's creative genious that God is willing to inflict pain on billions in order to do so? Here comes the pain... rant about God and God inflicts.. sigh. Not that I will take back my statements

 

I disagree.

I believe we have complete and total free will without any interference from God whatsoever. And at the same time he can contrive coincidences in our lives in any way he pleases.

You'll notice that it's all insignificant things though — things that have no major impact on our lives or our minds. Because God does not and can not influence a person's life unless we personally ask/allow him to. To interfere without our permission would be to infringe upon our free will, and God cannot do this.

Have you ever played one of those "sim" games like "The Sims"? Playing that is a bit like being God. You build a home for these people to live in, and you choose who goes in the home... but these people have free will and you don't tell them what to think.

If you imagine a Sims game where the little people are real, and capable of real emotions, and can become aware of their creator — you can see that if these people were your children you wouldn't want to tell them what to think, because their love for you would never be real if you did that.

This making any sense?

 

I'm not sure you do.

God designed our will perfectly so that we do what we are supposed to do.

Because God created our will to have all of us in the right place at the right time. Every choice we make is one that God planned for us to make.

Ohh, God does. People just aren't aware of it. Why would the creator of an instrument need the instruments permission to use it?

God can do whatever God damn well pleases. Our 'free will' is designed by God, and God knows how to use it to do what God wants.

Yes, because their 'free will' is a program. Our 'free will' is a lot more complicated than the 'free will' of the characters in The Sims.

Yup. Probably why God acts as God does.

 

I think Kharakov's right. If god does in fact create coincidences, he/she has a necessary part in our thought process and our will. If, however, my will is my own, then god is merely a presence to be felt and perhaps the judge of an afterlife. I go for the latter, personally.

 

hey kharakov,
you don't seem to believe in free will at all...?
[free will: the power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will. ]

i was thinking about god being in, and acting of, everything for a long time yesterday. i thought about heaven and hell and god organizing all of these lives to misunderstand him,
then come closer, then slip up,
go to hell, go to heaven,
be good, be evil, etc etc...
if we haven't got free will and everything down to the last time i blinked is god's divine order, why is god's divine order so chaotic?
why haven't we got heaven on earth?

 

As a ficticious construct of God's? Yes. As something that is true, no.

God puts different ideas in our head to make us think we are making a choice, when all along God is going to do whatever God does with us. In another thread, I just gave the example of God walking us to the park: God places the idea of "walking" us to the park in our head, along with ideas of not going to the park, and just does whatever God intended to do in the first place (walk us to the park). God gives us the illusion of choice to make life seem adventurous while we are completely safe (and for other reasons as well, divine fucking humor pisses me off).

You probably shouldn't ask me, because I will only say what God causes me to say. You should ask God instead (if you want a truthful answer, truthfully ask the question of the one who knows the answer, instead of talking to an intermediary such as myself). Of course, you asking the question is just God making you want to know the answer.... and so the story unfolds.

 

As a Christian, you say God, with a capital G, to describe your deity. That is because you belive there is only one, and if there is only one, then all the others are either different concepts, or satanic tricks.

The reason it appears that "God" did that is because you cant think outside of that box. I dont think your god did much of anything he is credited with, including his 6 day science project.

I believe he is but one god amoung many, and he is amoung the many that I do not worship. Unlike you, I dont believe the stories of my gods to be "true" in every context. I love our myths, but i dont hold them infallable. Every culture has them. I believe some of our hero myths to be fictional exaturations of real events, but for you to let your religions hero be that would cause it to collapse.

That is why things appear the way they do to you.

 

Does God have to act upon love? Whatever higher power governs everything, how do we know that its 'good'? Christians for example believe in a loving god, why cant the power that governs everything just be, neither good nor bad, instead of having a 'personality' or tending towards good or evil. I suppose its all in what you believe, if you believe that your good acts are a result of God, then you will see God as a loving god. I just think giving God characteristics such as loving and kindness narrows God down to just a god for humans....maybe that didnt make sense. cant find the right phrasing. But for something so powerful and infinite, it doesnt seem correct to catagorize it as 'love'. I guess what im saying is that whatever God is, it isnt too concerned with our happiness, let alone our lives . It just 'is'.
To believe, for instance, that God speaks through you, is just a way to make yourself feel important, in my opinion. The whole idea of God's love and devotion to humans is mankinds own self-promotion. I believe humans are just a small, isignificant part of the whole.

 

No one knows anything, it's about what we believe. No Christian can "know" for certain, or else there wouldn't be this big debate!

What I do know is this. There are two different states of being in this world. Good and evil. Pleasure and pain. But sometimes, what is pleasure for the moment brings pain as the overall outcome. And what is painful in our lives now, will bring us great success in the end.

As I've seen over the course of my life, as long as I do my best to do what is right, I'll suffer momentary snags and what-not, but the general direction of my life stays in a positive direction. Even those who don't believe in G-d believe in Karma... Christianity believes that we reap what we sow... In this lifetime. Not necessarily immediately, but our just desserts will come.

That could be true. I just wonder why mankind is the only creature gifted with reason. I believe that animals act off of instinct, not a thought or decision process. From what I've seen, even though it seems more blissful to be an animal, humanity is greatly gifted in comparison. Why would that be, if the Creator is impersonal?

On the subject of this thread, when I think of G-d, I think of the philosophical GCB (Greatest Conceivable Being). All knowing, all powerful, all present, all good. Let's face it, you don't want a being with that much power to smite you. LOL.

Also, since I am a Christian, I concept G-d by His Character, because it's probably the only thing I can even get a grasp on with my limited mind. I look to His different names given all throughout the Bible. In the link below, there is a list of His names and their meanings relating to His Character.

http://www.ldolphin.org/Names.html

 

i think god is very small and thinks simple like a child . this is ok . god is crazy , god is good . god is of the wind . god makes words in the clouds . love . love the whirlwind , all is within nature and you are born with the language of peace within you . by these words you may know god without confusion .

 

i dont think a child could have come up with the laws of science as we understand them

 

think of the wholeness , of all creation . all creatures are equal in this feeling and is wonderous joy . yet man can conceive the nothingness as an idea , and y'wo the void can be horror . zero . no existence . it's not an idea natural to a child , nor to a living god .

laws are just ideas , too . science is restrained by the rule of law ? no , it strives to perceive and express relationships of the wholeness . it tries to know what a child can hold innocently and completely , all of creation within a rainbow .

 

"You are your own God" - Aleister Crowley

Interpreted to mean "There is no God but you" - but means that the mask you put on God is basically your own face.

If you're a nasty, hateful type you'll be drawn to those Fred Phelps type churches that basically teach you who to hate.

If you're a nice, mellow kind of cat you'll see God as kind, nurturing and loving.

 

Or you can look at it this way. God created you, you experience what God does with you. Of course, eventually you will realise that God does far more than what God does with you. Well, maybe you will.

 

My only question is, what's the point of all this then? If God just does what he wants, even while putting all our ideas in our head then choosing for us...why? It seems so futile. Why the pretense of free will? Why use humans at all, if we're just robots to God's will? What could God possibly be doing that he needs us to do it? The whole thing seems really pointless.

This is part of why I can't see god as some sort of disembodied ego in the sky, The Great Ego, doing his will and judging, loving, hating, helping and condemning. Pantheism makes much more sense to me, where everything is God, and God is everything. There is no personal, thinking, feeling being outside of us. I don't buy the idea that there's a difference between spirit and matter. It's the same thing all at once, God manifest as the world. All the world is a unity, and "the kingdom of God" is the realization of this. Not the intellectualization of it, but the living, knowing, feeling of it. Sort of an Eastern view on it I guess.