If God knows all that was, is and "will be" than that alone contradicts his existance. If he knows what "will be", than our destiny is predetermined, thus nulifying the concept of free will.
He isn't making the future happen, what happens lies in the person who's going to do it. (ex; Sep 11 hijackers). He doesn't tell them to do it, he predicts (or knows) it's going to happen.
"knowing" is the the same as "causing" so I think it's is incorrect to say that God's foreknowledge negates any freewill. You're are ignoring the posibility that God only knows our choices, but does not cause them. But I guess it helps to distinguish between the types of freewill. Is it a sort of moral freewill you speak of, or other?
MM, you can't be that stupid! God knowing what decisions we will make does not mean he made them for us. It means, that we as humans use our free will to make decisions on a daily basis and that God already knows wha twe will do. Example: If my son is thirsty, I know that he will either ask for a drink or just get one(depending on the situation). Just because I know he will get a drink doesn't mean I had an affect in his decision. It was him making his own decision. MM, if you say that God doesn't know what we are going to do, then you are saying He is not all knowing. Well, next time your "really Big Spirit" visits you, ask him if God is all knowing. I just don't know where you get your information from. Perhaps they should make a special forum just for you, because clearly your beliefs are not sctructered on Christ and The Bible.
MidnightMoonlight, you sound like a process theologian, perhaps a panentheist. Anyway, you're still confussing the matter, and this is very evident when you choose to use words like "pre-planed," for example. However, if God foreknows the future, than it does not follow that the future is pre-planed, only pre-known.
If God knows our future, then yes, our choices are already planed. When you think about it, that's right. It is impossible to tell the future without a predetermined timeline of events. If a person had true free will, that future that someone say would not be the correct one, because freewill would havw changed it. And buddy, animals have just as much free will as we do. They choose whether they eat or sleep, etc.
I don't fast. Does that make me an animal? Your arguments are failing you fast. I've owned many pets, and we've had great relationships. Dogs, cats, birds all have their own personalitys and ways they act. And dude, humans follow physical desire too. Well, not "religious" people because physical desire is a "sin". So really, our animals are a hell of a lot more disciplined then we are. At least they dont run around talking about gates and dead people that predict futures.
you are so naive. you want to talk about animals freely choosing on their own? during a storm my dog needed to go to the bathroom. i opened the door to let him out, he rushed to the door, looked around, and came back inside. he choose not to go outside. if you put down 2 bowls of food, that dog will choose which to eat out of. or at least which one to start.
we all follow the same path. we also are capable of not following our desires. we dont. i follow what i want to do. and they do hold their bladder because they know better than to piss in the house. you do realise all of our own actions are chosen by our emotions. fear, hunger, desire, fright. i needed something out of my car during that storm. I was going to get it, and when I realized it was raining so hard, I didnt go. Does that make me the same as my dog? They are simply like children, they just need to be taught the basics.
Let me break this down for you. God- a being who is omni-everything, exsists outside of space/time, is the sole originator for all of reality. To a god such as this past, present and future mean nothing, they are all NOW to him. Creation, Fall, Crucifixion, Judgement It is all simultaneous. So... When god creates a person he not only has knowledge of that person's entire life and eternal destination, but is the sole originator of each and every event in that person's life and eternal destination. god is responsible for EVERYTHING.
However he will return..... we cant change that.... god knows the future if he didnt then he would not be God... thats how prophets no the future because god told them. Are you a new ager or Sumthing?
MidnightMoonlight, it helps to classify the one you're speaking with. I in no way mean that you completely follow process theology, only that your understanding of omniscicence, thus far, is very similar to their's. I'm sorry MidnightMoonlight, but by this definition, God is not All-knowing because there still remains something He doesn't know. You're simply reducing God to finitude; you're re-creating Him in OUR image, the reverse of what the Bible reveals.
I totally agree! MM constantly contrradicts the Bible.... He says he talks to God but God would never contradict is own word...
no-one has the free will to live if thats what you mean. you can't free will death....if that was an iption...no-one would die. everyone has a begingin....everyone has an end. our death is already known by god as is our life. we have free will because we live our lives. we chose the path that will guide us to eventuality in whatever shape or form it is. if we didn't have free will....we wouldn't question the possibility of its being impossible and it being infringed upon. if there was no free will...there would be no non believers.
"I AM" is a reverance to God ARE YOU GOD?? Jesus said many will come in his name but they are liars!!!
