Bob Dylan is a fraud (so says Joni Mitchell)

What is your opinion? Joni first made her rather odd statement about Dylan.... many months ago. She doesn't consider him a poet (to say the least), and even questions his worth as a genuine spokesman for the sixties.

All of this puzzles me. I have been a fan of both artists since I was in my teens. So it makes me wonder whatever happened to the spirit of the sixties? I can't imagine Janis Joplin calling Jimi Hendrix a fraud. It always seemed to me that musical artists were more into collective awareness, and the whole point was to come together and make the world a better place for all. Folk and Rock music united folks, not divided us. :sunny:

So is Joni's recent indictment of Dylan, just a sign of the times? Look at me! I'm the greatest singer, poet, lyricist, etc. Everyone else is a fraud. Or is there some truth in what she says? Even if it's just a little bit. In addition, what really got me wondering about what's up with Joni: She also has stated that there are no poets in current popular music - that poetry died in the sixties.

So I guess talented folks like Patti Smith, Tom Waits, Kurt Cobain, and Natalie Merchant... are mere hacks? WTF? So what's up with Joni Mitchell? Is she just jealous of Dylan's popular and critical acclaim? Was she just having a very bad day? Or is it a personal thang? I'm really curious about what you think?

QP

P.S. There are literally dozens of online articles about what Joni Mitchell said about Bob Dylan. So I won't single one out for posterity. However, I am interested in YOUR personal opinion. I happen to like Joni Mitchell's music. Big time. So what's up? I'm just curious as hell.

 

Dang, I guess not many folks care about what Joni Mitchell thinks? But what about all the Bob Dylan fans? I know I can't be the only one?

QP

 

yes. he is a fraud. his real 'last name' is zimmerman.
just another plagiarist like david wolfe.

ot:
i dunno about joni's morgellon's though.
Fenbendazole el cure that.
guess it made her come to terms with life,
and being around 'bob'.

 

So I guess most folk/rock stars are frauds? I was not basing his reputation on an invented name (which MANY folk/rock stars are guilty of). And regarding plagiarism: My understanding is that it was one song in question. So is everything he wrote to be regarded as questionable? Bob Dylan wrote a hell of a lot of historical songs. Should we discount all his work? I'm just playing devil's advocate.

QP

 

not here to argue or 'play devils advocate with you'. I know we are imprinted it's 'all for fun' - i don't believe it. You have your own opinions and I have mine and they are not really that different, we are led by the nose, by these 'masters' of publishing, film, music, propaganda (PR), education, science to believe the intention of 'devils' advocate' - WHO wants to advocate for evil?, really?

look into the lead of canned heat, janis, or jimi, and a couple of others, wasted. leaders of the soul in the way they played, taken out (not to lunch). lennon too. obvious assassinations, at least to me.

we're left with 'dylan/zimmerman' oh boy... yes, the people of hollywood change their names because they operate in fraud. They've been changing their names long before arriving on the hollywood scene. It's not the circumstances of hollywood that brought the tradition on, it's the people who founded hollywood. The same ones who stole film technology and brought it to the west-coast where they wouldn't be compelled to pay licensing fees. For flicker-films (early porn) and other demoralizing behaviours. Hiding one's past by changing one's name is only one aspect of it.

& if you like the guys tunes, who am I to argue? That's what they want us to do.

 

I hear you, but why should Joplin, Hendrix, Lennon... have to be taken out? While revolutionary folks like Ginsberg, Leary, and Garcia - were allowed to live? Were they not just as valid?

QP

 

dunno. must have something to do with tea leaves.

edit:

a consistent thread through these deaths is although the people murdered were naturally talented, they seemed naive.

janis - using dope, conveniently blamed on a 'bad batch'. you bet your ass her manager was the pusher/aware of what was happening.
jimi - niave, his manager killed him because he wanted to leave. this was suspected due to research from a third-party, and finally admitted to by the female spouse or partner of the manager in a public telegraph.co.uk article. drowned jimi from waterboarding him in red red wine.
dunno about the canned heat member, look it up in the long book unpublished by the guy who wrote the original jimi information above.
lennon - now he was smart enough to duck-out. only for four years or so, though. then he was back in and it wasn't appreciated.
this is besides the 'lone gunman' murders of RFK/JFK and others overseas around the same time.

all the people who got shot/killed share a kind of side-blindness/unconsciousness about the reality of the situation.

garcia was likely surrounded by good people to such a degree it was not possible to take him out directly at the same time, and anything about 'dropping out' is promoted by the 'crew', because it gets more people side-lined away from meaningful interference.

as I wrote, it's their show: let them run it.
you can have your own,
keep your wits about you tho.
accept everything, ignore nothing.
focus the intent on where you want to go.
fill your mind and heart with the god-spell of 'clear light' when their dark spell bothers you.

 

Yeah, that was really scary. So you think he had something to do with that? What are you getting at? And what does that have to do with his place (or hers) in history?

QP

 

Whoever she is, she seems to have really bad taste in art. Could you post a youtube link with her music? I refuse to do a search on my own.

 

Just curious about your opinion: Why did Ginsberg survive until the late 1990s? He inspired folks like Janis and Morrison. Just lucky?

QP

 

Print doesn't have nearly the same amount of reach, is my guess. Though I feel a lot of COINTEL-PRO assassination attempts may've been fabricated, just as the other half may've been suppressed. It's hard to say...

 

impatient man arent you?...i was unaware of joni's statements...pretty sure bob didnt hear her from behind his money,,,bob dylan plugging in a guitar at Newport folk in 1965 changed the music forever...can you picture joni as a travelling wilbury....i think not lol.......could it be sour grapes and ddt spoiling jonis mood?

 

I would if I could. But my computer is too old and crappy. If it's any consolation, I think Joni was just having a bad day. A really, really bad day. She's written some awesome songs. :sunny:

QP

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgMEPk6fvpg"]YouTube - big yellow taxi - joni mitchell in concert 1970

 

Probably a whole bunch of them in a row.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwSZvHqf9qM"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

 

Will take "Subterranean Homesick Blues" or this any day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wfamPW3Eaw&feature=related"]YouTube - Tom Waits - Chocolate Jesus

 

Impatient? Hell, this has been going on for too many months to remember. And I was terribly patient. So I finally got up the courage to come up with a post about the topic. Glad you appreciate Dylan - as do I - big time. However, I also like a few of Mitchell's lyrics. So I am stuck in the middle. Crucify me. :sunny:

QP

 

i meant impatient cause no one posted a reply for an hour lol....i slept in today...:mickey:

 

if i had to push one of them off a cliff?..it would be joni