http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4326007.stm Saying, 'I want you to go to room five instead of room one because you're black', potentially could create a great deal of difficulty Martin Ward SHA Doh ! .. you don't say. Teaching underachieving black boys in separate classes for some subjects has been rejected by the government. Trevor Phillips, head of the Commission for Racial Equality, suggested they might benefit from such a move, which had been tested in the United States. But the Department for Education and Skills said such separation would have "negative effects" and risked "stigmatising" black pupils. Head teachers had questioned the legality of racially-divided lessons. In England 36% of Black Caribbean pupils got five or more good GCSEs last year, considerably below the national average of 52%. Black Caribbean pupils are also three times more likely than white pupils to be excluded. I thought a failing student was a failing student.. 'thanks' who ever stopped this madness from becoming any kind of reality.
There's a certain sense of a self-fulfilling prophecy which has been found in schools in certain areas. If Afro-Carribean students are expected to underperform and behave badly, and are treated as such, then the liklihood is they will. This is often a case very specific to Afro-Carribean students, and not neccessarily all ethnic minorities. Asian students often perform above the national average, and a lot of this can be attributed to parental influence and cultural values. I don't think classes should be separated on a racial level, even if more students from a certain ethnic minority are underpeforming. Like you said, an underperforming student is an underperforming student, and the sets system allows these students to be taught and encouraged, and those with bad behaviour not to drag down those who want to achieve....
maybe people should start thinking beyond colour I agree somewhat with what you say Matt i think. The way I see it... if pupils are failing to pass exams it is for one of many reasons... colour not being one! maybe... 1. The content of the subjects we study aren't "real" enough... i mean, they don't tell life as it really is / was and dont prepare us for real life therefore we cant relate to them enough? 2. The way the subjects are presented dosnt appeal enough to children of today? I dunno, just a thought... Good topic...
Ethnicity is an important factor, especially along the self-fulfilling prophecy lines, and also discrimination, though that's not always a factor. It's also a regional matter. Areas with a high proportion of ethnic minorities, are often quite deprived areas, as a result of discrimination, and students in these areas will be more likely to under achieve, bringing down the national average. A lot of sociological research has gone into this. Colour definitely is a factor, but I don't think it should be used as an excuse to segregate classrooms....
Well exactly, which is what i was saying Maybe classes aren't geared towards what modern children of all ethnicity need? Mybe it's the style and content that needs to be changed... not segregation that needs to be imposed... gees it's like 50's / 6o's America
The solution is so straightforward I'm amazed that the government haven't spotted it. Actually, I'm not really amazed. Instead of special classes for black pupils, why not have special classes for the underachieving fuckers, regardless of their race?
I think it was possibly a well meaning solution too a deeper problem. I would assume it would have just targeted those students who were underachieving ?. The way it seemed in my thinking was the solution was too move ALL black kids into 'special' classes for certain subjects ?. This seem slightly like they would have created a unworkable siyuation .. not all black kids need help , not all black kids want help , not all black kids would apreciate being hurded into their own class... just like every other kid of any colour (i would imagine). The flaw i think was that it was a idea brought over from America.. were the attitude and demeanour of kids is diffrent.. Picking up the idea and transplanting it into our schools was doomed too failure from the start imho... if they just thought black kids ared black kids were ever they are from..Just talking in this way sends shivers down my spine, i realise that life is not as simple as i would wish.. but even so. I think a healthy arguement for the content of modern curricilum is a good idea given the wider and wider diversity..it surely would not do any harm.. The only slight problem could be that some parents don't wish for their kids to have a broad knowledge of 'foreign' 'stuff'.. I am just going on what it was like when i was at school..have things changed ?. You can't keep all the people happy all the time... cater too every possible situation in every school.. thats why when i read this story (even though it seems to be working in america) i thought this was a bad idea. Being of Mixed race, brought up with white foster parents and mainly hanging out with white and asian kids . I have no idea were they would have put me ?.
Well exactly lol, would you be in "special" classes half the time and "normal white" clsses the other half? gees it's so crazy :& ... I have a feeling this report has suffered media spin... but even so... it's an insult to us all, regardless of colour IMO
I was getting ready for school when I heard that on the telly this morning. Halfway through the sentence I almost shat myself when I thought the idea was actually going ahead! How much racial segregation do they want to encourage in our schools? As people have said before, we need to concentrate on encouraging pupils to do well and not just say "hey, you're black and not doing so well, get into the duggy classroom over there!" Having said that, I think that setting is a very good idea. Streaming isn't because you can be bad in one subject and good in another, but there's no way on this earth that brighter pupils help the less able in their classes to do better; it works completely the other way round - the less able drag the good kids down (in my experience anyway).
Yeah I'm glad the government aren't going ahead with this lame idea. Everyone should know by now that segregation (especially racial) just doesn't work. It would be really uncool for the UK to adopt this idea (which I presume has been borrowed from America) given that a) the US has a really shit race relations system (especially in comparison with Britain) and b) the US education system is more screwed up anyway.
The trouble with the US... ..sorry, what am I on about?... ... one of the MANY troubles with the US -THAT'S more like it - is that they seem to think that Freedom of Speech is so important that they daren't contradict anyone or tell anyone they're wrong. So they won't tell a racist **** to shut the fuck up for example, for fear of infringing his rights to freedom of speech. They also think that two wrongs make a right, for example murdering a burglar, (or murdering a black man or muslim because he is of the same race as some other miscreant the murderer in question may or may not have ever met). Land of the free MY ARSE!
Segregating under achieving black children!!!! Sorry I thought I misheard that at first....What a really really fucked up idea..I know let us take some children who are having learning difficulties...Then segregate them and tell them its because they are black that they are having these problems...I mean what a great way to promote racial harmony within schools, what a fantastic way to promote *positive* stereotypes what a great way to make people proud of their heritage.....Fucking idiotic fucking Government twats!!! Jesus what the fuck is wrong with people!!!!! We really have run out of idea's now haven't we......
It was a proposal of trevor phillips, not the goverments. The goverment rejected the idea... I am sure your opinion of the goverment aint gonna change , but on this issue they saw sense, the rest of wht you said i gotta agree with you.. of course it came from america (metioned earlier)..it worked over their On the other hand segregation does go on willingly.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4326567.stm but it is still wrong imho ..this school just looks like a good small school with slightly religous overtones , if parents are into that fair enough.. but it is still segregation .... will they have lessons on 'interacting with those of other colours'... add the cane and we are almost in victorian times .... this aproach could work for more kids than black kids, but is it right that black families are more religous and 'old fashioned' so the pressure to be a good little kid is always their.. if some kids were this is true within the family then this type of school is going to be perfect.. Possibly , or we just don't want to go back to old fashioned ideas (however good they may have been). Monday 7 March 2005 CRE statement on black boys in UK schools Trevor Phillips has not called for all black boys to be segregated in schools. He was asked by the BBC to look at a scheme in the US where some black boys are educated for some lessons separately. Black boys in the UK start school with some of the highest baseline assessments of initial ability on entry, but at GCSE level their pass rate is 27% at grades A to C, compared to a national average of 53%. The scheme in the US showed that in just a few months attainment levels had risen by 12%. Trevor is not sure whether this scheme would translate to the UK. However, he feels that we should look at the scheme to see if we can learn anything from it. He also feels that black children need role models, and ideally parents - especially fathers - should play a more active role in their children's education. BBC asked a question spun it and confused angered and generaly misrepresented the issues .... got us talking though , no consolation though imho.
I did a bit of teaching at a school in Croydon last year. Its one of the worst schools in london and you can tell. Its has a majority of mixed race/ethnic/afro carabean/aftrican etc etc pupils, infact its almost rare to see a white student there. But however THATS not the reason the school is bad. They are incredibly underfunded and in a bad area. It also doesnt help that the students in an underfunded school share a school field and are right next to a privatly owned school (Brit school) for people with "special tallents" (they arent really all that special but the audition to get in etc etc etc meant it can seem that way). But the BIGGEST setback i saw was that a large amount of the class DIDNT speak english. one or twp boys could barely speak a few words, they would sit there in silence and not understand a thing, it was really sad. Where as others had english as a second languagee. Now im not going to say that this is the reason the school is so bad (they have a VERY low GCSE average from what i remember) its a bad area and it was not rare to see police cars there. I witnessed a Knife fight between a group of students who looking like they were in about year 8!! However i think that the language segrigation can be a very bit set back in schools like this because it looked like these non-english speaking students were just left to understand what they could.
i heard this on the radio and thought i'd heard wrong... i'm disgusted! how can you possibly even suggest that after all the hu ndreds of years we've gone through to establish that everyone is equal? i'm goin to work but i'll write more later grrr
personally i think that introducing aparteid into this country would solve all the problems of inequality...obviously
