any unschoolers here?

Hey all, just wanted to sah hey in the new home education forum. Wondering if there are any unschooling families here on the hip forums?

We have been unschooling our 7 kids since the 80's. 2 have gone one to college, one continued her unschooling through the higher level years and is now unschooling her own children, and the other 4 are still living and learning here at home, with us.

 

its pretty much what i did, but i had little to no parental help.

 

how does unschooling work?

 

i think its just teaching the kids (or simply learning, in my case), the things that matter... learning about real things that are going on in the world (e.g. whats really happening in the middle east, whats really happening in our govt, etc etc), freeing your mind, thinking for yourself... my all ready bad math skills most likely are much worse than what they were, since i had no teacher or anything i just didnt do any math work but my writing, critical thinking, and most importantly my creative and artistic abilities became much better, and probably a few other areas which im not aware of atm... back when i was in public school, i was just another clone, a sheep... i had pretty much no thoughts of my own and i was the least artistic person in the world. look at me now.

 

This probably doesn't count, but - like soulrebel51 - I've been unschooling myself for nearly three years since I left college. Learning continues long after a person passes their school/college years; and in my view, a person can "unschool" themselves at any age!

---------------------

This article might answer your question:
Unschooling (Wikipedia)

It's the form of home-schooling that appeals to me most. If I ever have kids, it's the way I'd like them to grow up and learn.

----------------------

Good for you I say! You have demonstrated to me even further that teenagers are perfectly capable of directing their own learning.

 

I hate to be the devil's advocate here, but I think unschooling (in some forms) is the worst form of education out there.

My little brother and sister (4 and 3, respectively) are being unschooled and they are already remedial. Now, I'll say right from the start that my parents aren't doing all that they should be doing in terms of basic knowledge, but that's only part of the problem. By three, a child should be starting to read, add, subtract, get introduced to fractions, music, art, science, history, govt., etc. In my experience, when the schooling is "child-led" the math, science, history and government portions all go unnoticed. How can you expect a child to become interested in math if the parents don't urge the concept.

I don't see anything wrong with your children telling you what they want to learn, but at the same time I think there needs to be a basic set of information. I don't understand why you wouldn't have two hours of conventional education (science, math, english, foreign language), and then two hours of fun "field work" as I like to call it.

I've asked my step mom on numerous occassions, "how are the kids supposed to learn what they are not exposed to" and she just replies with, "people push their kids too hard these days, kids shouldn't be learning algebra in 4th grade." In my opinion, the kids are perfectly capable of learning all this stuff at earlier ages, so why not? It isn't like you are stealing their childhood... or does childhood = nievity? I don't know, I throroughly disagree with the unschooling approach, but that's just my opinion.

 

I do not really have an issue with your overall Post, but fractions at THREE?

 

An introduction to fractions... 1/2, 1/3, 1/4. I'm not talking about 10/3^6... though I'm sure to some child in the world that would be perfectly comprehendible.

 

Yeah.....even addition and subtraction at three is a VERY high expectation! They aren't even introduced to fractions until age 6-7 in "real" school!

The whole point of unschooling is to learn at one's own pace. If the child is reading at four....great. If they don't pick up reading until 6-7.....that's great too.

 

If a knowledge of math is essential to the understanding of a subject that a child IS interested in, they WILL learn math, whether they realize it or not.

If a child is fascinated by cooking, they will learn all about measurements, time/temperature, fractions, etc.

If a kid is into music, they will learn the mathematical concepts that underlie it (scales, harmonics/overtones, octaves, etc.).

If they are drawn toward any kind of mechanical work, a good grounding in mathematics is needed in order understand the concepts beyond a very basic level. Stuff like geometry and trigonometry are essential for carpenters, machinists, etc.

An interest in any scientific field is pretty much guaranteed to provide exposure to a lot of math.

Hell, everyday things like keeping score in games and counting your change at the store teach basic math, as well.

 

Like I said, to each his own. I still don't think that child-directed education is adequate... but I also hold extremely high (higher than average) expectations for education too, if that wasn't already apparent.

 

good god, i didnt know how to read or most any of that at age 3...

but i dont think i agree with what your parents are doing. i am extremely grateful for being unschooled/homeschooled/whatever, however, i'm so glad it happened when it did... if i were to have done this when i was even 15, who knows how i'd be. i was one of those quiet kids up until january of '04 or so, and then i became just your average sleeping-in-school-and-failing-most-classes pothead. getting home/un-schooled was a chance to "fix" myself, and i knew i had to.. if i were to do this two years ago (or longer than that, of course), i most likely wouldn't have turned out this way at all.

 

i graduated on homeskool. recently dropped out of college, but my education still continues to this day. i read constantly and when i'm tired i take a nap and tune into some music.

 

How I wish I would have been homeschooled. Public school was the single most horrible experience for me, that had the longest lasting bad effects.... It took years to get over feeling like I was worthless. Public school is not a natural environment for any child, nor is it healthy. But homeschooling can take many forms. Where I live, homeschoolers are pushed under the table and ignored. The parents have to do it ALL, becuause the public school system will not help or even keep track of how things are going. Here was my experiment, just to see what would happen. The last 3 years that my teenagers were "homeschooled" they never opened a book or lifted a finger to do school work. They were only tested once a year at the end of the school year. Last year they were not even tested. The school just passed them on, no questions asked.
My 15 year old managed to "quit" school without anyone even questioning it. Bottom line, yer on your own.

 

I agree with Ellis. Kid's may not be "learning" fractions at three but if they can cut a cookie in half, help Dad make pancakes, divide the sections of a pizza among family members- then they are working with them. That is all that counts they will learn them in their own time.

 

Self-directed learning can be hard for many people to grasp, especially if you have been schooled all your life. It is based on the fundemental faith that children (people) want to learn about the world around them and will do so if allowed to. Each child learns what he or she needs, when the interest develops, rather than on the teacher's timetable. Thus, the child internalizes the knowledge learned, and skills are aquired quickly, even though the concepts may not be introduced as early as is required of schooled children, who typically need years of repetition for learning rote skills such as mathamatics and spelling. More often than not the skills are learned for the test, with little understanding of the principlas behind them, and therefore often forgotten when the test is over. The child who learns skills out of his own curiosity and interest, internalizes not only the skill, but the philosophy and principals behind it, thus rarely forgets it.

To say that children as young as 4 are remedial, is simply to say that they have not yet been conditioned by the system to only think and learn the "required" or "valued" skills at the prearranged times. These children are developing other skills, such as imagination and artistic thought, which are often stunted by the early introduction of left brain skills such as math and reading. Self-directed learners easily think outside of the box and find creative solutions to real life problems. They are the inventors and inovators, the poets, musicians, and artists.

Certianlly one who has been schooled can also become an unschooled self-directed learner who thinks outside of the box. I consider myself to be an unschooler. I do see that my children who have been raised this way come by it much more naturally than I do, yet unschooling is a way of thinking about life and learning as a life long pursuit.

 

mosaicthreads:
You're the first person I recall reading about who has raised an entire family in an 'unschooled' style.

You're a breath of fresh air - if I may say so (..as are other members on this forum). Thanks for sharing!

 

I still disagree. There are some fundamental concepts that should be learned at as early of an age as possible (math, for example). It is just fact that such concepts are easier to learn at young ages. Why shouldn't the kids learn the concepts? Their childhood is not being stolen because they have an expanded knowledge base.

Also, why is this suddenly the only way to think "outside-the-box"? I'm not supporting public schools here, but ingenuity can be developed through traditional methods as well. Of course, I'll probably get flamed to hell for saying this, but I just don't hold much worth for poets, musicians or artists; the number of successfuls compared to the number of hopfuls is miniscule.

 

The things that matter to me most you CAN'T do in unschool. I practice them on my own (languages) but I would never have been able to learn the basics on my own, which was something I tried for years before I got to the classes in school. That's one of the singlemost important parts of ANY curriculum, but most homeschool/self school students don't get any at all.

I still prefer school over the unschooling type stuff I do the rest of the time. The things I'm interested in- cultures, law, politics, foreign affairs, literature, etc- I've always done on my own because school doesn't dig deep enough into it for my liking 75% of the time. However, I've still learned much more from school than any of my time on my own or my homeschooling experiences before I started kindergarten and over the summer. If a kid is left up to learning JUST what they want to, then they're going to be a very one sided individual.

I also don't think my left side of the brain is stunted at all- but I could read, write, add, subtract, and do simple multiplication by the time I was 3. And if you say kids can't be self directed in public schools, then you're obviously only looking at kids who don't have supportive parents.

 

Wow! As a musician myself, I'm somewhat offended! Let's put the downright ignorance and rudeness of this statement aside however, and consider the assumption that it's based on - i.e. that un-schooling only 'works' for the artistic, creative or musical types. Frankly, this assumption/hypothesis is a load of poppycock.

A considerable fraction of the little time I had to direct my own learning during my school-years was spent on non-artistic and non-musical projects (as well as musical and artistic ones), such as learning how to program QBasic and reading books on physics etc.. To be honest: I fared quite well in such endeavors, and managed - for example - to write the computer programs I set out to write (altogether primitive though they were). In fact, when the notion of leaving school prematurely crossed my mind, the intention was to work in computers (I'm not saying that this was a viable plan - it quite likely wasn't; I'm merely pointing out that a knowledge of 'scientific' as well as more 'artistic' subjects can be gained through self-directed learning).

Also, from what I've read on the life of Thomas Edison, his learning seems to have been almost entirely self-directed. I would suggest that you read this page. Take the following quote from Edison himself:

That's what unschooling is largely about in my view - letting a child/teenager (/adult even) follow their own bent. And just look at where it took Edison - look at what it allowed him to achieve!

Then again, maybe you don't "hold much worth" for Edison's contribution to society either? I would point out though, that his contribution was in the field of science!

-----------------------

Frankly, I think it's very important to respect a child's autonomy, and find your statements quite obnoxious and arrogant. You purport to know what's best for the child - although I think you're quite off-the-mark - and ask "Why shouldn't they learn these concepts?". Well, while you're encouraging people to launch themselves into (largely) arbitrarily-selected projects, why shouldn't they learn to scuba-dive, study the constellations, and observe the natives in Eastern Singapore while they're at it? After all, many people are as likely to use what they learn in these experiences as they are to use the differential equations it seems you would have a four-year-old learn. On the other hand, you could just leave it up to the child to choose what projects it wants to undertake itself!

There are countless areas of knowledge that can be explored; and countless means by which a person can 'broaden their horizons'. What makes you think that your means - which, again, have to-a-large-extent been arbitrarily selected as far as I can tell - is any better than someone else's means? What makes you think that the learning you wish to enforce on the child will be of any more use to it in it's life than the learning it undergoes while it's making model-buildings with lego, or observing a worm making tracks on the beach sand. You are advocating that people take a gamble - encouraging them to make an investment, without any guarantee that a return will be made on such investment!*

Well why on earth should they? Before you advocate that energy be expended on something, a reason should be offered as to why that energy be expended! To argue that the knowledge "might" be used at some stage in the future is rather tenuous. What in my view is more desirable is that a person acquires the skills necessary to learn further, so that, no matter what they need/desire to learn in the future, they are able to do so. If you read soulrebel51's posts, you will observe that he/she seems, by himself, to have acquired skills which would be relevant to such an endeavor - e.g. the faculty of "critical thinking". In my view, un-schooling equips a person with these skills to a far greater extent than public school - or even another 'version' of home-schooling - does!

What's your definition of a "successful" person? I believe that, essentially, we are humans - not doctors; not physicists; not artists; nor whatever else a career may define us to be. And I consider a "success" things as simple making other people smile and laugh, and enjoying other people's company. My definition of a "successful" life doesn't require accolades, scientific breakthroughs, letters after one's name etc.. Such things can be very positive, and even wonderful, but to - by default - equate them with "success" is crude and repulsive; because, in doing so, you are implying that their absence is tantamount to failure.

* Do you think I'm engaging in unfair exaggeration? Then give me examples of an 'ordinary' person using complex mathematics in everyday life! After all, this is the sort of knowledge you would shove down children's throats - no?