Antidepressants and Pharmaceuticals

so what does everyone think about antidepressants and well any kind of pharmaceutical prescribed for any reason. depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, OCD, adhd, etc.

personally i think that antidepressants are a heap of shit. they just supress your emotions instead of dealing with the underlying problems. i hate them, they are like the polar opposite of psychadelics. infact i don't think that any kind of pharmaceutical should be issued for any reason, however i have questioned this viewpoint recently.

i always thought it was wrong how pharmaceuticals changed a person, but then someone brought up how psychadelics also change a person. why should one be justified and the other not? (im talking from a pro-psychadelic viewpoint here) maybe there are a select few people that pharmaceuticals are actually beneficial to, in an absolutely positive way, but i am still not entirely sure.

what does everyone think about the subject?

 

well just to clarify antidepressants don't suppress your emotions, in fact the most commonly prescribed ones (ssris) help you maintain a higher balance of serotonin in your brain, which is the mood neurotransmitter. So in fact they help you feel more emotional.

but drugs like benzos i agree are basically booze in a pill. unfortunately some people need that, i did a few years ago. benzos helped me get through some tough times and i'm not the only one.

it's not like psychedelics are all sunshine and lollipops either, for every 2 people who love them and have had positive life changes there is 1 person who hates them and is much worse off mentality thanks to them.

the truth is that both types of drugs (those prescribed by society and those abhored by society) are just part of the same subgroup, "mind altering substances".

and this subgroup is a double-edged sword

but you should learn more about SSRIs, Tricyclics, MAOIs, Lithium, and other drugs before harping on them brah. They are quite impressive from a scientific point of view (just like psychedelics) and are helping millions of people around the world live their lives.

so are psychedelics!

yay!

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Only thing I can add is: SSRI's is are prescribed far too much. And I would never take one, medicinally or recreationally.

 

well, when i take SSRIs, i have psychotic episodes. when i take SNRIs, they supress all my emotions and make me a zombie.

im of the impression that antidepressants supress emotions, rather than dealing with underlying issues. even if they do even out the serotonin levels in the brain.

also, they supress sexual stimulation. cumming is harder than climbing mount everest. that alone is pretty much reason not to take them.

btw i know a ton about pharmaceuticals, but i am still very against them. but ive been wondering some lately.

 

oh, and i think diagnosing people with disorders like depression disorders, bipolar, anxiety, etc. is a crock of shit.

although i guess that there might be some cases where it might be helpful, im not really sure.. which is why i made this thread.

 

oh man i could not climax for the life of me when i was on paxil. it sucked . . . i know my gf deep down thought i wasn't attracted or something even though she never said anything :\

 

lol, yup.

but shouldn't the people who are depressed/anxious/bipolar face their issues so they can be freed from them forever? rather than just medicating and covering up the problem?

i am more of an advocate of natural healing, which means facing and solving your problems. not temporarily sedating them.

i guess the reason that i am so much more pro-psychedelic is because you don't need to keep psychedelics in your life to keep the lessons and wisdom they give you. antidepressants however, you must take every day, or their benefits go kaput.

i view antidepressants and well pretty much all pharmaceuticals as a coverup of the real problems. it's like someone has issues in their life so the chemicals in their head get off balance because they don't know how to handle it, and then the pharmaceuticals just come in and treat the chemical imbalance... not the real problem -- the source of the chemical imbalance.

when your only tool is a hammer you tend to hit whatever you can with it, problem is that not all problems are nails...

 

I was on Lemictal and Abilify at one point in my life...and I didn't realize how much emotion I was missing until I was off of them. I really wasn't fully enjoying life or being happy. But also it kept me from being really upset and down.

So I guess the meds helped me realize how lucky i was to have such awesome emotions when I am off of the meds. and being on and then off of them taught me how to keep my emotions in check.

So they did their purpose. But i don't really advocate using them at all...most parents put their little kids on ADD meds and stuff just to keep 'em quiet or because "the doctor said so".

Apparently, doctors have the miracle cure for everything and should never be questioned.
That was sarcasm, btw. lol

 

yeah i see what you mean desos and i agree. psychedelics have the power to completely cure you with one use, while parms must be habitually used to work properly (and to avoid terrible wd's!)

the thing is though its really easy to sit on our high thrones and say "Well fuck, these people should just DEAL WITH THEIR PROBLEMS, duh!" but if you've ever been in the kind of mental garbage dump that requires you to take these pharms then you know exactly how difficult some problems are to face, and now imagine a problem twice as bad, in someone only half as smart as you :\

 

My strong resentment to psychatrics is that the combination of marijuana and energized meditation works so much better it makes psychiatrics look like a scam.

 

yea i guess some problems are very hard to face, still it seems like the professionals should be able to help in a more efficient way rather than pushing a bunch of pills that can just complicate things alot of the time.

 

For sure, that's why any therapist worth his weight in crap will do a battery approach to your problems, like pharms + therapy + lifestyle change

that is the most effective way from the medical standpoint

of course psychedelics ARE therapy and they CAUSE lifestyle change so they win yet again

 

I hate the pharmaceutical industry, but I completely disagree with you.
Most real mental illness is biological. It's not caused by a problem in your life, it's caused by something improperly developed in your body since birth.

People who just have "issues in their lives" can develop real mental disorders because of them, and whether or not they should take pharmaceuticals to deal with it I guess depends on the severity of their pain, and what the cause was. I think that veterans with PTSD should have access to whatever psychiatric help and pharmaceuticals exist, because they've willingly subjected themselves to trauma that we can't even imagine. But someone who's having a depressed phase in their life shouldn't just jump onto prozac; they should try making some changes first, and avoid it if possible.

But there is a HUGE difference between a depressed phase and chronic depression. And diseases and disorders like manic depression and ADD are completely biological, and blaming the person who's suffering for "creating" their problem and then refusing to "deal with it" is one of the worst things you can do. I don't think that every kid who's inattentive should be put on ritalin. But if you suspect they have ADD, you change their diet, change their lifestyle, make sure they are as healthy and structured as they can be, and they still don't improve, then it's worth considering.

 

And I agree that psychedelics have the most therapeutic benefit BY FAR.
If we could have pharmaceutical grade psychedelics, in a really great atmosphere, available to everyone, we could probably end almost all mental illness.

 

well said. that's why psychologist comes first and after his treatment he decides if a psychiatrist is needed.

imo, es only stupid to think acid or any other drug will reveal anything to a person obfuscated with his own problems unless this person is under the wing of a professional who prioritizes (i love the spell checker) the person and not the drug.

 

Even though they are grossly overprescribed, i don't think pharmaceuticals should be totally done away with. Theres no question that there are people out there who benefit greatly from the use of pharmaceuticals. The problem is rather than dealing with the problem, we(through a psychiatrist) just throw drugs at it. As a result there are likely several people being prescribed for every person that actually needs it. Personally i have had very unpleasant experiences with prescriptions both for ADHD and depression. IMO anti-depressants(Lexapro) are the devil, but i also know people who vouch saying that it has greatly helped them in their lives.

Unfortunately Desos the issue of psychotropic(is this the right word) pharmaceuticals isnt so cut and dry. While the current state of the drugs is not right, i think it would be a mistake to ban them outright.

The responsibility lays with the psychiatrists, unfortunately it seems as they are on the payroll of the pharmaceutical companies.

 

yea now i guess that i can't really say the pharmaceuticals should be banned, since that would mean that other drugs like psychedelics should also be banned. even though they are, i still think they should be legal. biasing my view to just allow psychedelics and banning pharmaceuticals would be just as bad as what the government is doing now, and what i am so against.

also prismatism, i wasn't exactly blaming a person for creating their problems when the issue is genetic or whatever you want to call it. i was mainly just applying that logic to the people whose problems are created by issues within their lifetime.

but i am still not really so sure about the diagnosing of people with mental disorders and then giving them medications to counteract their 'disorders'. that just doesn't seem like the right approach to me. how about giving them training in how to cope with their problems and eventually how to overcome them? now i am not sure exactly how experienced i am with mental disorders and what i am speaking of might be impossible, but i have been diagnosed with depressive disorder or some shit similar to that. the doctors beat around the bush in telling me the clinical name. my mom is bipolar and so was my dad. doesn't that put me at very high risk for being bipolar? well point is that i am not -- even though i might have been at one point -- because i learned how to cope with my problems without the crutch of pharmaceuticals. i conditioned myself to be free from all of the psychological issues that i might have, either through heredity or life experiences.

i had an online friend that i used to play this mmorpg with, we kept in touch a little even after we both quit the game. we were both very similar people and it was fun to play games and talk to him. the last time i saw him i was talking to him about a bunch of crazy shit that had happened to me, and told him that i was being prescribed medicines. well long story short one of the last times i talked to him he raged out of our chat channel saying 'don't fucking let other people tell you what is wrong with you'. and he was right. i had total fallem victim to the brainwashing propoganda that had tricked me into thinking that there was 'something wrong with me'

 

Their "problem" is that their brain is not creating or transmitting the right amount of chemicals. It's not a philosophical thing that can just be sorted out through talking and changing your habits. Just like you can't will your body into growing back a lost arm, you can't really will your brain into physically changing, beyond a point. You can do things to stop the damage and give your brain a little boost, like changing your diet, exercising, meditating, taking supplements, etc. But a chemical imbalance is not something you can just "overcome". That's like telling someone who's tripping on acid to just "overcome" it and come down. A few very advanced people may be able to do it, but it's too much to expect of most of us.

I have ADD. My brain does not make enough dopamine. Dopamine is important in mood, attention, concentration, emotions, motivation, cognition, sleep, the ability to feel pleasure and pain, movement... a lot of things that most people take for granted, I can't depend on. Because of that, sure, I've developed problems that are psychological. I've had to cope with being unable to do things the way most people do them, and not knowing why. But it stems from a chemical imbalance that I have no control over. So I take a medication that helps with the release of dopamine, and it counteracts my natural deficit. I still have to work through the habits I've developed over time, but with the medication I'm less chemically disabled.

It might not seem like a big deal if you haven't experienced it, but if you have done drugs you should be able to understand just how important the chemicals in our bodies are when it comes to our consciousness and our ability to be in the world. Maybe some people have chemical imbalances because of something humans have done to our environment, or maybe it's just a part of evolution ("mentally ill" people have been responsible for a huge amount of innovation). Whatever. It's real. And it's often debilitating.

 

yea i guess that it might be debilitating and uncurable in some situations. but it just seems like taking pharmaceuticals perpetuates the problem. you don't have enough dopamine so you take a medicine to increase dopamine, then your body produces less dopamine because you are taking a pill that gives you dopamine, now you are dependant on the pill, etc...

wouldn't it be better if we could find a way to naturally increase dopamine levels without the need and dependancy on a drug?

and you bring up a good point that mentally ill people have been responsible for alot of innovations. i am not saying anything is wrong with so-called 'mental illness'. when you diagnose someone with a mental illness and give them medicines you take away their identity -- you change who they are to a more uniform standard -- as well as their ability to innovate. how can this be a good thing?

im not denying that some people infact do have chemical imbalances which hinder their lives. i just think that the whole system that we have currently of labeling and treating these problems is wrong, and in some cases perpetuates or even makes the problems worse.

 

It doesn't really increase the dopamine I create, it just uses what I already have. It would be great if I could just go to the root of the problem, but to do the things that naturally increase dopamine you kind of need to be able to concentrate, have energy, and gain control over your thoughts and actions. So it's just a part of a bigger process. I take a small amount of medication to help me gain the presence of mind to do things like exercise and eat better. Hopefully someday I won't need medication, but right now I do and I accept that. I wouldn't even mind if I had to keep taking it until I die, because I know the alternative, I've been there, and It's not where I want to be.

You can end up suppressing someone's creativity when you're treating them for mental illness, but that's mostly with tranquilizers and hardcore mood stabilizers, which are more for the benefit of the doctors than the patients. Which I'm completely against. But if you look at really innovative people who have had mental problems, productivity was a real challenge for them. They had ideas, but couldn't get them out. Most manic depressives are only productive in their down phases. And what it really comes down to is how much a person is willing to suffer for their art. A lot of geniuses kill themselves, and if they don't, they usually live a life full of suffering. I'm sure that we can find a balance, where you can still have access to your ideas, but at the same time retain the ability to operate in the world, execute those ideas, and find some level of happiness in your life.

And I agree that the way we're handling it right now is wrong. There's way too much stigma and guilt. The idea of "mental illness" irks me, because it means that you have something that you need to cure, when really you were just born different in a world that has no capacity to deal with differentness, and you need to find the healthiest ways to get by.