A rather interesting story: Feds Raid 'Liberty Dollar' HQ in Ind

God forbid our money is actually allowed to be worth something!





EVANSVILLE — Federal agents raided the headquarters of a group that produces illegal currency and puts it in circulation, seizing gold, silver and two tons of copper coins featuring Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul.

Agents also took records, computers and froze the bank accounts at the "Liberty Dollar" headquarters during the Thursday raid, Bernard von NotHaus, founder of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act & Internal Revenue Code, said in an interview.

The organization, which is critical of the Federal Reserve, has repeatedly clashed with the federal government, which contends that the gold, silver and copper coins it produces are illegal. NORFED claims its Liberty Dollars are inflation free and can restore stability to financial markets by allowing commerce based on a currency that does not fluctuate in value like the U.S. dollar.

"They're running scared right now and they had to do something," von NotHaus told The Associated Press Friday. "I'm volunteering to meet the agents and get arrested so we can thrash this out in court."

According to the company, NORFED has produced an estimated $20 million of its own paper currency in the past two decades, claiming its $1, $5 and $10 denominations were backed by silver stored in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

Federal agents also raided the group's storage facilities in Idaho, von NotHaus said.

Wendy Osborne, a spokeswoman for the FBI's Indianapolis office, declined to comment and referred all questions to the U.S. attorney's office for the Western District of North Carolina. Suellen Pierce, a spokeswoman for that office, also declined to comment.

In a federal seizure warrant given to the AP by von NotHaus, federal agents allege the money and other properties seized in the raid were linked to money laundering, mail fraud and wire fraud.

The raid comes eight months after von NotHaus filed a lawsuit in federal court in Evansville seeking a permanent injunction to stop the federal government from labeling the Liberty Dollar an illegal currency.

The U.S. Mint issued a warning this year that the Liberty Dollar violated the Constitution and warned consumers against using them unsuspectingly.

Paul's campaign said it had not authorized production of the Ron Paul dollars.

"We have no connection with that," said Jesse Benton, a campaign spokesman for Paul. "He was using Ron as a marketing technique. We didn't have anything to do with that or sanction it or give permission in any way."

 

As long as it doesn't say legal tender on it, no crime has been committed.

Although the case says apparently that the currencies are being used for laundering. Knowingly aiding someone committing money laundering is illegal.

I don't know all the facts about this case. Any more information? Google just turned up the same story by a couple different writers.

 

The Liberty Dollar

America's Inflation Proof Currency


Apparently it isnt FBI proof

They also claim its 100% backed an redeemable in
gold and silver, go to their site the shopping cart is
closed and they are also unable to exchange or redeem eLiberty dollars

http://www.libertydollar.org/catalog_off/index.html/

http://www.libertydollar.org/

 

NOT true, using them "Liberty Dollars" as currency is Illegal !!
According to the US Mint and Justice Department.
The man who makes them, Bernard Von Nothaus, encourages their use for "barter".

 

^It's not illegal you friggin' nit-wit. They are simply gold coins. Is it illegal to buy gold and silver coins? No, it isn't. People buy gold and silver to barter with in times of economic termoil, so how is this any different? Since when is bartering illegal? There is a difference between what the government says is illegal and what the Constitution says is illegal. Maybe you should try reading the Constitution. The feds went after the guy simply because of the popularity they were beginning to receive with Ron Paul on them. Try becoming informed before spewing your establishment propaganda.

 

Can you be any dumber ?

Again, Yes its illegal to pass them as legal tender.

No, who said it was ?

Who said it was ? ARE YOU REALLY THIS DUMB?


Just like paying your taxes isnt illegal, right ?

 

No, YOU'RE the one that's dumb!

Where on the money does it say LEGAL TENDER? Where?? The coins make no claim about being legal tender.

 

When did i say it did? WHEN?

I NEVER SAID THE "COINS" ARE ILLEGAL, I SAID USING THEM AS CURRENCY IS !
ie; if you try to pay "not barter" for something with them, the coin isnt breaking the law, you are.
Guess the LD is NOW fiat money, being thats its not backed by anything.



How many of these do you own Rat? im betting 0


These people exploit unwary consumers "like yourself" and all you can do is stick up for them

 

How can you pay for something with them if the other party will not accept them? However, if people are in mutal agreement, and the one party chooses to accept the liberty dollars as a valid alternative currency (backed by gold and silver), how is that illegal? If I wanted something you had, and I decided to trade you, say my jacket for it, how would that be illlegal? It's the same principle. What people do amongst themselves is their business. Nobody said they were going to pay their house or car off using liberty dollars.

 

The liberty dollar has been around since 1998. So why all the fuss now? It's because of the popularity they began to receive with Ron Paul's face on them. This scares the hell out of the banks because they want people using only their fiat monopoly money.

 

The Liberty Dollar is a scam,plain and simple.


If you dont think so, buy some.

 

It's possible, though it's no more of a scam than the Federal Reserve notes which are worth nothing more than the paper they're printed on.

 

I don't see how it's a scam in any way. I don't share the ideology of these people, however...

It's not currency. They don't claim it to be. They are precious metal coins. There is nothing illegal for a set amount of precious coins to be used in lieu of currency if agreed on by both parties.

You could also trade you car to me for a baseball card. There is no law and no precedent to back up the assertion that buying and using silver for bartering.

And since I still can't find any information about this case, that leads me to believe Pressed Rat's assertion that this raid has nothing to do with money laundering (although I can't be sure. It's hard to find specific details on this.)

And is instead a case of the US treasury overstepping it's boundaries, using the pretext of money laundering as a guise for intimidation.

 

How can it be a scam? The majority of Liberty Dollars are in physical silver and gold form, out in the public's hands. Actual silver and gold! They also have some warehouse receipts and eLiberties which one could turn in for the specified amount of silver, or one could have until the Feds took the silver.

Pretty much this has to do with the Liberty Dollars becoming popular, as rat said. They didn't have much of a problem with them for the past nine years until now. Also, no charges have even been filed. They are simply investigating, and for some reason that gives them the right to take stuff, even with no charges.

There really isn't a lot to tell at this time. The warrents are posted on the Liberty Dollar website. If you want I can post the email newsletters that were sent out from Bernard.

I do have a few Liberty Dollars myself, as well as some other silver pieces. I was really looking forward to getting some of their Peace Dollars.

 

as far as i can tell the feds claim it's a scam because the word "dollar" might "confuse" people into thinking it's "legal tender" regardless of wether it says so on the coins or not, yeah it's a b.s. case. private currencies are illegal according to the feds but that never stopped people from using private currencies, they just dont call it a currency or even coins, they call it metal rounds and use it for barter, same thing, but the feds havnt reallly cared since now,a nd only now because it's gotten so popular what with the continued inflation of the fed reserve notes.

 

I'll try and find the link again .

http://www.floppingaces.net/USAVLibdoll.pdf

Heres a copy of the warrant.

 

Yes, we know what you think, Cad. The government is never wrong. They are always justified in their actions.

 

yep, just what thought... b.s.

 

So the only problem really, on face value of that report atleast, that was the liberty dollar looked too similar to American currency, to be honest most Americans are so stupid i wouldn't be surprised if they got mixed up.

But in essence Rat is right, it is merely the trade of silver for goods/services, nothing illegal about it, people have been doing that for a long time with out charges, of course you have to know the value of silver if you want to trade along these lines.

 

"no you can't trade gold and silver"

"why?"

"because the constitution says you need to use worthless paper printed on interest"

"no it doesn't"

"your going to jail so you can join the slaves in making my next pair of pants"

God forbid the federal reserve being obsoleted... my work might be rewarded by something of value - I don't think the terrorists would like that.