a few questions for christians.

Well, first of all, let me make it clear I am not trying to attack your religion, I am trying to learn more about, because I've been thinking hard on it lately.

One question: In the beggining god created the heaven and the earth(well the beginning of our time considering he is outside time) he made adam and eve, and they bared two sons cane and abel, cane kills abel and he is throwed into the land on nod, and meets a wife, didn't tell her name, this is in genesis 4:17, well where did the woman come from? And ive thought maybe in chapter one when it tells he created man and woman, that was the answer, then i thought, well is he talking about adam and eve or what? and maybe chapter two was only the creation of adam and eve, and 1 was a creation of some people ment to stay outside of the garden, well then i thought, what if chapter 2 is just and in depth descripion of chapter 1 and chapter 1 is just a brief summary. So my first quesion is that, where did canes wife come from? Or maybe eve went and fucked her own son, who knows? it never tells the name of the wife.

Question 2: Before the serpent tempted eve with the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and she ate of it, there was not mention of procreation, well wouldn't that make satan a viable part of our exsistence? Or maybe that is the answer to my first question, that the other children were not recorded in the bible?

please answer these two(rather long) questions. It would be much appreciated.

edit: or one more assumption, that some of the bible has been mistranslated or lost over the years.

 

Once, I was a christian and I asked these same questions. They were fundamental in my liberation from religion. For your first question, the anwer I was given by a leading gospel evangalist was that God does not have to explain his ways to us, we must put faith in the Lord and accept what is given to us, not question it. But what gets me is that; is not our ability to question a fundamental part of being human, of civilisation itself? For your second question, the answer I was given was that the fallen angel is a part of the earth, it is his prison for wont of a better word. The world is full of sin and evil represented by the fallen angel, it is what challenges us everyday, and in it's vanity and vengeance against God it attempts mould us and shape us to take us away from the god that scorned him, but it is (apparently) faith in a god that saves us from sin on earth so that we may stay true to the shape that God made us, his own shape. So without the fallen angel there would be no questions or reason to turn from a God, but without those questions lies the innability to choose faith and to accept a God with your own heart rather than to have had a religion thrust upon you. So the fallen angel is a very viable part of existence itself, without the fallen angel there would be no choice and no true faith. Does that make sense or have I just confused you more?

 

yes, the second answer does, but i've already been told the "faith" part to the first, im not going to become a "christian", because i think that even if there is a heaven and a hell, we need not worry about it. I mean this lifetime is just as valuable as the next, so we should treat it just as good, have fun,learn things,interact exc. If we go to hell we can't stop it, i mean if god knows everything already, then you cannot go against his knowledge of past present and future, so if you go to hell, it really is not in your hands.

 

I pray everyday for the rapture to come and take you religious people away.

 

another thing is this, there is no mention in genesis, that anyone told eve, she cannot eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. and at first adam was called man then he was called adam, so where did his name come from?

i believe in god, although im not sure what that god is, and im not a religious person, i don't want to be. I mean whats the point, if you do it out of fear, its not a good reason, and second it belittles us humans, we need a god to help us get through trials. We need to stop trying to be saved, and save ourselves.

 

I'm a Christian and this might sound REALLY out of line for me to say this but I don't pay any attention to things like that. I never did and probably never will. I'm more of a message deeper meaning kind of guy. Maybe God created other people after Adam and Eve that weren't mentioned? I'm not sure though. I am a Bible reading Christian. I focus more on the messages than anything else though. There's a bigger meaning behind things. As for where a woman came from who was down with Cain I haven't a single clue.

Somebody can probably answer this though...

 

Adam and Eve didn't just have two sons. They had many sons and daughters. Cain most likely married his sister.

As for your second question. There actually is a mention of procreation before the devil tempted Adam and Eve. Remember, the Bible says that after God created the Human race and BEFORE satan tempted them, God said, "Go forth, be fruitful and multiply." He told them to fill the Earth with people before we were tempted to sin. So the answer to your second question is, no, satan is not a viable part of our existence. We could procreate before the devil tempted us. God intended for us to multiply.

 

i know they had lots of sons and daughters, that might answer or it could be that they weren't the only humans on earth, that they were the only ones put in the garden, who knows?

 

if i remember correctly there are two creation stories in the first chapters of genesis. i think he creates people to populate the earth. then he describes adam as the first man, and explains how he created eve. its been awhile since i dusted off the book. but i think thats in there. who knows?

 

Yeah, the first chapter, is creation, trees,plants,animals,exc. you know earth, humans.

Then chapter starts how he created man and some people use that they condradict eachother, some people say that they don't and 2 is just and in depth of it. But if you look hard enough he dosen't call man adam, it says he called adam to name the creatures. Not the only man was there and was named adam, it is just an assumption. So maybe he was the one took to name the animals. It can go on forever and ever, its either faith, or bullshit, one or the other. I've finally, well for myself anyway, realised i don't want or need religion. I'll just see what happens.

 

This is all assuming that Genesis is accurate, a deeper question to ask is who wrote Genesis? Given that it talks about a time before there were people and Adam and Eve in the third person etc. The common consensus until the nineteeth century and still is amongst conservative christians (and I guess Jews also) was that Genesis was written by Moses under inspiration of the holy spirit. While there arent many points of contention between science and religion Genesis is a place where its hard to avoid a direct confrontiation, as modern physics, astronomy and geology have all given Genesis a pretty hard beating. Again conservative christians say this is a test of faith ive never liked this as while God may not necessarily make his presence obvious I dont believe any God would try and deceive us to test our faith. Contemporary theology suggests that the first 5 books of the bible may have been written by up to 4 or 5 authors, this is called the documentary hypothesis. I dont know much about the ins and outs of the documentary hypothesis but the wiki entry looks like a good starting place, theres also a book called 'Who wrote the Old Testament', cant remember the author.

 

yeah, i never really believed this genesis though, i mean if god loves you so much, why is he willing to leave out shit, risk your eternity in hell, just so you can prove your faith to him?

My parents are christians, they believe in the test of faith, but in the bible, well what we have of it anyway, it suppossedly says pride is the worst sin of all. and if you look at it god has pride(in the biblical sense) when the character satan wanted to be greater than him, he didn't expalin why he couldn't he just cast him out, out of what other than pride?

 

As I understand it, in whatever the original language was that Genesis was written down in, the word "Adam" literally translates to "Mankind" and the word "Eve" translates to "From Man".

Also, I can't speak for all Christians on this, so this is just my own personal perspective, but I don't think that Genesis should be taken literally. It seems more allegorical. (is that the right word)

Also, if you are more of a Bible literalist type, I would still be careful taking Genesis too literally. It is full of translation problems and corruptions. Given the Church's tendency to morph other religion's teachings into Christianity, and the striking resemblance of Genesis to more ancient creation stories (Sumerian for example), I suspect that Genesis as a whole is largely suspect.

One last point, the story in Genesis is really peripheral to the point of Christianity anyway. Using it as a reason to reject the faith as a whole seems skapegoatish.

 

I've always considered Genesis to be the absolutely central point in Christian thought. Without the fall of Adam and Eve and the resulting state of mankind as absolutely sinful, corrupt, and totally unacceptable to God, what is the purpose of the antoning death of Christ?

Without a literally-true Genesis, Christianity can have no compelling reason to assert an exclusive claim on absolute truth .

 

I meant other than the whole redemption theme of course...

I meant that, many Christians, myself included, view Genesis as non-literal but still accept that man is corrupted and therefore needs forgiveness and redemption.

Of course, I may not be totally typical, as I am suspicious of the Bible in other places as well. (Jonah and the whale for example)
</damage control>

 

Bingo!!!!!

 

the name or number of people who wrote down the first books is irrellevant. it was a story carried on by oral tradition long before wroting of books came about. the bible as we know it now came into its current form after the fall of the roman empire, written by the irish, who are known to embelish thier stories. oh well. i guess for some the message that underlies the words and authors rings true to alot of people.

 

Originally Posted by seamonster66
not only do i want the Steelers to win, I also want the city of Pittsburgh to pillage the city of Seattle.



Bring it on, baby! Refs won't save you this time!

 

I usually read more postings on a subject before replying, but, I didn't have to for this one. Simple reason... most people are probably gona tell you what their pastors told them. I read for myself and go back to original Hebrew text when I have to through translators and transliterators. Most pastors know this stuff but won't tell you because it's quote " too controversial ".
First of all, the world was NOT created in chaos. The first verse stops after He says, In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
The second verse He says " and the world BECAME void and without form. If you translate the word for "was" back to Hebrew, it means "became".
Cain and Abel were NOT fraternal twins, but, still twins. If you read where she "again" bore Abel, "again" in Hebrew means to continue something. So, she continued to bare, meaning twins.
Somewhere in the New Testament, there's a verse where Jesus opened the eyes of a blind man and asked him what did he see. He replied " I see men, as TREES walking ". The tree of the knowledge of good and evil WAS satan, just as the tree of life IS God. I think you're inteligent enough to take it from there. The Hebrew does not say she ate of it. It uses the word "partook".
Next, the man and woman, all nationalities or races were created on the 6th day. The man and woman who Jesus was to come through the blood line were created on the 8th day. The 8th day creation's child, took a bride from the 6th day creation. Check out chapter 6 of Genesis! And who received the first mark? Check it out in Genesi 4:15.
You will not find Cain's geneology listed with Adam. Yes, a visible part of our existence, since Cain obviously had children and they had chidren. Catch my frift? You WILL find Seth listed in Adam's geneology though. Pretty inteligent questions. My observation is that, now, you will never stop questioning God. It's ok to walk by faith. It's the grace we are offered freely. It's even better to walk by sight though. The Father doesn't mind questions. In fact, He says " Ask and it shall be given ". Peace!

 

That was pretty cool, another thing though is along with mistranslations, i think people take it way too literal, like the firmament seperating the waters from the waters, creastionists are trying to make that fit with science, i always took as they didn't know science back then and the waters were blue and they skies were blue, and thats how they got that idea.