Pffftt I wipe my ass with teh bible

Certain, so-called Christians have proven they are not peaceful. To place all people of faith into this category is just a display of intolerance. Many gang wars break out in california over the years resulting in lives being lost. If you are aware of statistics, you will find that many of these people involved are African American. Does this mean all African American's are gang bangers? No, it does not. That is the type of logic that you are using by trying to pin events that took place years ago on the entire population of spiritual people. Certain groups have proven that they use violence to bring about their message. That certainly does not imply that each and every person who believes in God will do or has done the same.

 

. firstly it was royalists that beheaded christians in them days . have you not heard of priest holes? ( study on it ). secondly yeah such anger ( coming from the uk ) i have seen what religious hatred doe/s to communitys etc etc . ( no need to study) . thats why i reacted to that poster in the way i did . people like him ( make me sick ) 1= why doe/s he come on a christian forum in the first place ?. if he wanted a dicussion (fair enough). but he came on to flame .

 

. people who talk peacefully and have a hatred for christians "well " i have well seen through you . as i have stated above i have seen what religious wars do " and personally think it stinks" live and let live. i wonder why you came here to upset christians in the first place?. i can just picture you as one of those deadheads who would also abuse a person and any other religious groups you dissagree with . by the way what religion are you ? . please tell me that you dont wear a white pointy hood.

 

The first word he rote was "pffffttt!". -Couldnt yas tell there was something wrong with him from the jump?

 

which version was it?

 

To you guys there may be 'Christians' and 'so-called Christians', but to a non-christian they are all the same. So to you maybe it was so-called christians involved in those wars, but to the rest of the world it is all the same.

And I love how the word 'intolerance' gets thrown around whenever anyone points out the bloody history of christianity. It isn't intolerance, it is historical fact. Those things really happened, and they happened at the hands of people who were christian. You may not want to consider them real christians, but at those times in history to the people being attacked and crusaded against, people who practiced the christian religion were their aggressors.

Why sit in this silly denial about it? I mean, I am an American, and I don't try to say it isnt real americans that commited genocide against the Indians, shipped people over from afirca to be slaves and for centuries treated them like less than human, who are fighting what I feel is a unnecessary and criminal war right now in Iraq.

If a group says they're Hindu, then they are Hindu. If a group professes that they are Muslim, then they are Muslim. Same with Christians. Now you all may have your own politics within the religion, thats your business. But since I don't believe in christianity to me none of you, crusaders or charitable, are really going to be sitting in heaven with Jesus someday. So you can see, in a non-christian point of view, how all christians are christians. It isnt a hard concept, I'm sure you consider all Buddhists Buddhist.

And BTW, I never said all christians are violent, so the gang-banger analogy was terrible.

 

Christians have not started wars to spread their religion. It's just a lame excuse. Actually they want what every human being wants-money, wealth and power. And that's the reason of their wars.

 

You got somethin' in your eye bro. Love you I do.

Part of the teaching of peace. That is what the old age is about. Do you know that Jerusalem means "Teaching of Peace". Being part of the New Jerusalem is simply recognizing that peace is coming down from heaven to you.

Because I love and care about them.

Well, as long as we both enjoy the abuse...

Ummmh. Undefined. I love God and stuff.

I don't where a white pointy hood. Although they were in style at some point in time. I prefer a robe like Raistlyn's with magical symbols embroidered along the edge. Just for looks, mind you.

 

. oh there"s me thinking you were a troll or hobbitt from lord of the rings . what do yer do with yer wand man if yer dont mind me askin like. ? . you must be smokin some potent shit lad........wanna take yer higher

 

Much in the same way that we love how many others throw around the word, "intolerance", when it comes to those of faith.

It is a historical fact that men caused wars and they happened to call themselves Christians, yes. No one was refuting or denying that. There are also pieces of history that involve Christians being slaughtered as well, yet that conveniently goes unmentioned.

Actually, you claimed:

Which, by your tone, pretty much implies that nothing involved with religion is peaceful, and that would include the people who have faith. Mother Theresa was a very peaceful woman. She dedicated her life to taking care of those less fortunate. In fact, there are many figures within religion who have dedicated their lives to peace. To say that the existence of religion has been far from peaceful is fallacious.

I love how you condem the children by the sins of their so called fathers.

 

Well next time I mention christian wars, I will mention every other war in history, regardless if it is irrelevant to the discussion, just to make sure you have nothing to nit-pick about my posts. It makes it easy for you to evade the point of my posts, which was my disagreement with the fact that a poster thought christianity was a peaceful religion, and wars were started by people that don't have your same beliefs in the religion.

And I still agree with my statement that the religion has been far from peaceful. I also think America has been far from peaceful. Africa has been far from peaceful. Doesn't mean I think all the individuals are violent.

 

Your whole rebuttle has been based on a thing. You claim that religion is the cause of these brutual deaths. Religion is inanimate and can do absolutely nothing unless someone breathes life into it. Humans, on the other hand, can use religion as an excuse for their selfish desires. Religion alone is not to blame. The blame can only be placed on what these people chose to do with it.

The point is that Christianity itself does not lack peace. People lack peace.

 

If a monkey says over and over that he is a cow does it make the monkey a cow? Its the same way with people that claim to be Christian but aren't truly Christian. Repeatedly claiming to be a Christian doesn't make one a Christian.

Jesus told his followers "By their fruits you shall know them". He also talked of people that were white washed tombs, "Having a form of Godliness but denying the power thereof". Its these types of people that start wars and trample on other people.

Did you know that some Christian denominations like the Amish,Mennonites, Quakers and Seventh-day Adventists teach that their members are to be pacifists and are to not bear arms in time of war? Jesus said "Love our neighbor as yourself". He said to return good for evil.

Don't judge the whole by the actions of the few. Like the old farmer said."Don't throw out the whole apple barrel just because one apple is rotten." If you find a bad apple toss it and look for the good ones.

Kinda like David said in Psalms. "Oh taste and see that the Lord is good"

 

Well I know that everyone involved is human, so bottom line is humans causing these deaths. But when we are tracing history, we have to define it more clearly than that. We can't just historically record that every war was simply just people against people. We have to define it more clearly than that. I don't blame religion just because I say that christians have a pretty violent record in the past. I understand that at the time of the crusades being christian was good for you both politically and economically. People were obviously christian for alterior motives, but for historical record, they are still christian.

And how can I make it more clear that to a non-christian, no christian is really a person who has a holy ghost inside them, and is going to heaven after they die. All the politics within the religion (who is really christian, and who is just pretending) is your business inside the religion, because to a non-chiristian it is all the same to us. I don't ask every buddhist I see if they are considered 'real' buddhists by the rest of the people in their religion.

I never said, or even close to implied that all christians were somehow bad or violent. They have just had a more bloody history than many other religions, and that is worth pointing out when someone attacks non-christians for causing wars, and calls their christian history peaceful. I don't judge the whole on the actions of the few, but I don't deny historical fact either. The catholic chuch, and christians have been involved in some pretty bloody events (both where they are the aggressors, and where they were the targets) and the religion has not been peaceful. Like another poster had claimed.

Who the world identifies as christian is a lot different than a cow calling himself a monkey, it is a belief someone identifies themselves with. Having religion isn't changing your species. So that was another bad analogy.

And Jesus left out a little bit in his verse. We do not know 'them' by their fruits alone, you have an example to set for your religion, an your good works aren't the only examples of christian behavior on the table.

I don't judge the whole on the actions of the "few" but I do look at the big picture. I know a lot about the christian religion, and I am aware of the pacifist groups. I am aware of the many denominations of christianity. My family is baptist, my in-laws methodist. I grew up near Amish country. I don't hate christians because of their history, just like I don't hate american's for what I consider to be a bloody history as well. I just hate how it is a big area of denial for most christians, and you aren't going to learn anything from history if you are constantly trying to deny it...

 

I understand that it is difficult for a unbeliever to realize the difference between true followers and people who falsely refer to themselves as Christians. That is why we try so desperately to shed the light. I do not practice an organized religion that marked it's place in history with blood stained hands. Jesus said that as soon as he left this earth, false prophecy would weave it's web and the crusades and other bloody rivals between various so-called religious groups are proof of that.

My faith is based on Christ's own teachings. He taught that more importantly than having love for those who love you in return, was to have love for your enemies and those who persecute you. As you can see, these specific religious groups clearly displayed their lack of faith by murdering millions. That is the difference.

By using the passage that states, "You shall know them by their fruits", the acts of murder they employed should show that they obviously did not bear the fruit of Christ.

 

Just to jump in for a second, what other religions are you talking about?
Islam and Judaism definitely aren't up there in the peaceful religion category. And Hinduism has had some pretty violent cults (i.e. the Thuggee) along with all sorts of sacrifice. From what I remember, there were some pretty violent Native American religions on this side of the pond.

I guess my thoughts are that people are naturally violent, bloodthirsty, and sadistic. This will be expressed in branches of every religion, every nation, and every culture.

So long as you recognize (and I think that you do) that the actions of humans following an idea do not indicate the truth or falsity of said idea.

 

And just to add a little confusion, what about the Mormons? They display the fruits as a group and as individuals moreso than just about anyone that I know. However, they are *not* members or followers of the historic Christian faith. They are not Christians. So, knowing them by their fruits seems a little off the mark when their theology is askew... then again, perhaps we should state the "fruits" that you are referring to.

 

Thanks bro. Yup, I been smoking some potent shit and playing with me wand with love of God.

 

Actually, a person who "Kill's" for God is good too. They send people to the afterlife which is a win-win situation. Being resurrected in the afterlife is certainly an enlightening experience for all that have been killed.

 

Kiks, Shits and Giggles like you wouldnt believe!