Underpaid migrant farmworkers

In Florida, there's this big strawberry festival during this time of the year. I went last year, the food's great, it's fun to run around and go on all the carny rides and watch the hicks and farm animals 'n stuff.

Then this year, I read an editorial on the underpaid migrant farmworkers who picked those strawberries, and was. . .kind of shocked, mostly at the fact that this didn't dawn on me earlier. If you've ever been to rural Florida, there's some white crackers, but there are even more migrants working the feilds - it's like slavery in the 1800's, where there were more blacks than whites in part of the rural south, except that a different minority took their place.

So what can anyone do about this? I'll I can think of is growing my own food, because most (if not all) of the crops grown in Florida are done so with the aid of marginalized workers.

 

They are migrant, they chose to come, so they must face the lack of good work.

 

The Tyson plant near where I live loses several thousand illegal aliens every other month that they transport over here to work for them...only problem I have with it is the damn immigrants taking our jobs; send 'em back to Mexico!

 

This another situation where "The American Way" is tossed completely out of the equation for some reason. You should not be comparing this to slavery in any way, shape or form. These people "CHOOSE" to work there. Nobody is "FORCING" them to accept lower wages. These people, if they "CHOOSE", can simply walk off that farm at any time to find work elsewhere and that would be "The American Way". But they "CHOOSE" to continue going and working there knowing full well from past experiences and from word of mouth that the company has poor labor standards. These people are adults and should be able to take care of themselves and make their own decisions. I have no sympathy for these people. If you work in America, then act like an American and use your constitutional rights!!

 

They CAN'T get help for it. I know where I live, though there aren't migrant farmers, there are many immigrants working in construction. They are paid all under the table for less than minimum wage because it's either that or their family starves. They can't get jobs anywhere else because a) even if they are a legal immigrant, there is such a huge discrimination problem here that many employees "overlook" hispanics and b) many don't speak English well because not only is English a hard language to learn in general, it's COMPLETELY different in usage than Spanish (English is much more ambiguous, Spanish is more precise and meanings are clear). I know where I live, there is NO help for them to learn English. I've been learning Spanish for the past 6 or 7 years in school and though I could function if I had to for some reason go to Mexico to get work, it wouldn't be a pretty sight.

People need to stop complaining about how the immigrants take jobs or don't speak English. For one, immigrants have ALWAYS taken jobs, so that means that unless your family was one of the first groups of people to settle in the US (my family was) then you are complaining about what your ancestors did as well to make ends meat. Also, if you're not going to help immigrants learn English or job skills, then don't whine about them having any. Not that anyone here has, but I know someone eventually will.


I honestly don't know what you can do though... I've gone to my county and state government asking for some form of aid or grant to start a program to help them, but I've basically been ignored and told to mind my own business. Great....

 

you said if you HAD to go down to mexico. no one forced these people to come into america, they CHOSE to come here. also, no help to learn english? do you think that no one they come in contact with (friend, family) that knows both spanish AND english? being surrounded by english like they are in america also would be a good way for someone to learn english.

also look at how it effects our economy and how many jobs are being lost

 

Silver, I have to admit I find your post very strange.

You say these people work construction, but then the next sentence you say they can't get jobs because of discrimination. Makes no sense!

If they can work contsruction under the table, then they can damn well work construction legally and pay their fair share.

The construction company is the one to blame here, because his low life ass is dodging his duties to goverment as well. This whole under the table thing saves him a ton of money from S.S. to insurance. It also saves the scab worker from having to pay his fair share.

There are millions of people born and raised here in American who do speak english and do have an education and still can not find a job. You honestly think I should give a rats ass about immigrants who come here, but don't want to learn English and don't want to pay taxes and then expect minimum wage? If they don't pay taxes, then they also won't license their vehicles. They sure as hell don't have insurance if they kill someone with their vehicles either. They are living completely under the radar. Since the wage they make is pure cash it's probably pretty close to what someone makes who does get minimum wage yet pays their taxes and has proper insurance and license on their vehicle.

Minimum wage is protection afforded to us by government who is paid for by our taxes. So if these people don't pay taxes they do not deserve any kind of government protection. They don't deserve any protection under any of our laws for that matter.

Do you really want to spend your life trying to help these people who don't care or would you rather spend it helping honest citizens who will contribute and help society by paying their fair share?

 

Don't talk to me about lost jobs- my parents have both been unemployed for 2 years and I'm not allowed to get a job until I'm accepted into an Ivy League or comparible college, according to my parents. What I meant by not being able to get jobs is that they can't get any REAL jobs that pay at least minimum wage. The construction work they do is completely illegal, but most don't know that or really have no choice.

Even if a friend does speak both English and Spanish, that's really not that much help. I know I could never teach anyone English, and if so that would take at least 2 to 3 years to get anyone decent with it. It's not that these people DON'T want to learn it, many are, it's that there are no sources. Even the ones who do speak English and are 2nd generation Americans are snubbed over the local white trash.

And actually, I find that the average immigrant is much more genuinly thankful for my help and care than anyone else here. I've tutored some Mexican kids in the trailer parks for free, and their families honestly would give the clothes off their backs to me if I need it as well as a place to stay and a hot meal. That's much more than I can say about the millionaires here who complain about every new school built because it causes a little tax hike, despite the fact that their brand new subdivision added 100 kids to an already overcrowded school system. Apathetic people who don't want to help others aren't worth my time, nor are they helping society. Society is sick with indifference.

 

well, i live in florida and there are LOTS of migrant workers here, they do very well for themselves - they have the most expensive, biggest trucks in town. also they usually have very nice houses, one person will be legal so the whole family can move in. actually, they seem to do quite well for themselves. they LIKE it here, they work hard, and they appreciate their 'low pay' which supports them in a life style far better than they would ever achieve in Mexico. therefore, i am not gonna waste one tear cryin over their situation.

and silverclover, they don't get 'snubbed over for white trash' - they get preferance because the companies can hide a lot of financial shit with under the table workers. way less paperwork to deal with too.

and, to be a complete asshole, i must admit that they make awesome neighbors - they always keep a low profile and never call the cops on ya when you're thowin a party, they wouldn't want INS to find them!! lol!!

nicer than anything i've ever owned... pretty nifty truck for 'slave wages'

 

This would be classified under...(cough)BS(cough)

What are those things called? Oh yeah.. public schools! And they are free if you are a tax paying citizen. Hmmm.. guess that does rule them out huh.

Well, people who help illegal immigrants are criminals just like the immigrants they are helping. Criminals aren't worth my time! I'll help people all day long who are legal citizens and will be productive to society and not just themselves.

Do you not realize, Silver, that for every illegal immigrant you help get work you put another tax paying citizen out of work. That means less money for social security, schools, protective services, jails... the list goes on forever. There is a reason these people are required to register and become citizens. They should pay their fair share to live in this country and support the very reason they came here! It's just absolute insanity how anyone could think these people should be allowed to continue their free ride and on top of that HELP them out!

 

lets look at what they do with their money....... send it back home!!!! if they put money back into the american economy like american citizens, it would be ok, but they are sending money back to their families and taking all of the money out of our economy!!!! and when they have "slave wages" that actually undercuts the real american citizens who need to support their families for a job.


also, the person who "exploits" them, is also the person who hires them! so if you "kicked a person who exploits a migrant worker in the face" then who would employ your precious illegal immigrants? maybe you should take a few college classes and actually learn the ramifications of illegal immigrants

SEND EM BACK ACROSS THE BORDER!!!

 

they get paid pretty damn good in florida, they just don't get insurance nor do their employers have taxes taken out of thier wages. so they get about the same 'take home' pay as us local white trash. and they are the preferred worker - americans expect too much from their employers, i guess.

as for learning the language, silver clover, i once had an opportunity to go to spain for a while. i had studied spanish in school and could only ask where the post office is, but by the time i got back i was pretty fluent - it doesn't take long if you immerse yourself in the culture. which they don't. my mexican neighbors were there oh, maybe 3 years, never spoke a word to me even though i tried to be neighborly on more than one occasion. but they were good neighbors though, always had a neat yard and weren't too noisy. not like us, we often have the whole street over at our house!!!

 

Ok, so then what?

If many people stop buying produce, and grow their own, the profit margins for produce companies will fall even more, and the working conditions will fall correspondingly!

This is a very tough issue! I understand your sentiment, but the solution is much more complex. For starters, you can purchase your produce from Farmers Markets, or from grocers that pay a premium for their product to insure fair working conditions. You, in turn, will have to pay more for your produce.

To end poor working conditions, the Wal-Mart effect of constantly falling prices has to end, but price is a powerful motivating factor to individuals making a purchase, and understandably so.

You should read the book, "Reefer Madness". It discusses the underground economy, and goes in depth about migrant farm workers and strawberry production. It is very interesting, and illustrates how complex the issue really is.

(BTW, I am selling my copy of it on half.com. Click on the link in my signature if interested.)

 

Most of the replies have focused on the immigrant, him or herself. This is not the real issue. The immigrants are here, legally or illegally, because of the vast black market economy that exists in this country. If you want to change the flow of illegal immigrants, or change the conditions of migrant (or domestic!) farmers, laborers, construction workers, etc, we have to change the fundamentals of our economy that allow the financial incentives for "under the table" work, or the incentives that encourage substandard working conditions. You also have to take into consideration the global economy that know exists. If we can't compete domestically with our produce, then we will loose that industry as well!

I HAVE NO IDEA how to fix this problem, but the issue itself is much more savage than any individual migrant worker (who is only trying to take care of his or her family, not undermind the American workforce).

 

It's the same answer that applies to every other issue in this country.

LAWSUITS and mostly INSURANCE.

These under the table workers don't cost the company any insurance premiums and won't ever be able to sue the company. Two of the most Fed up issues taken care of by hiring immigrants.

If more people had to pay for their own stupidity, the world would change very fast. Instead, these idiots start sueing companies for gross amounts of money which increases their insurance premiums which keeps their employers from getting raises which keeps the employers from being able to buy products. And as we clearly see, also keeps legit employers from even being hired.

Way back in the good ol days people would simply get up and walk away or get their doctor bill paid after slipping on a private sidewalk. Now it's $15 million dollars for pain and suffering. Injured at work? used to be doctor bill covered and time off to recoup. Now it's $100 million dollars for poor working conditions even though it was completely their fault and unrelated to any safety issues.

INSURANCE is the devil and will be the destruction of our society.

 

The berry pickers in Floreida could do what the tomato pickers in Florida did. Organize, boycott, and get the buys to pay a penny on the pound more to go to the workers.

 

ok, so i was reading the paper (sometimes i like to know what's up, even though our paper is commonly called the 'slantinel' because it's so one sided) and it turns out that it it ILLEGAL for the schools here in florida to ask for immigration papers. so there is NO REASON that their children can't go to school or learn english, except for the fact that florida has a crappy public education - and that's equal opportunity crappiness, not reserved just for minorities and immigrants.

 

Businesses hire illegals because their labor is dirt cheap. Businesses who hire illegals are engaging in criminal activity and run the risk of lawsuits, fines, and imprisonment, so they don't hire illegals to avoid lawsuits. They will take that chance if it means cheap labor.

 

bullshit. they ain't cheap.
_______________________________

Sunday, March 27, 2005

It’s a hard-knocks life, says nursery owner

By MELISSA GRIGGS
Staff Writer

PIERSON — As a small nursery owner, Richard Noll says he has little choice but to hire illegal workers.

“It’s not because you want to do it,” he said. “You can’t even ask if they are or aren’t. You know how the deal works.”

Noll, 56, an engaging man with salt and pepper hair, owns Florida Floral Supply Inc., the only tropical plant wholesale nursery in Pierson. He faces many of the same problems as the fernery operations that employ an estimated 5,000 undocumented workers in Northwest Volusia.

His business, started by his grandfather in 1948, employs six people. Noll guesses half of them are here illegally.

A lot of attention gets paid to the fern cutters, Noll said, especially by charities and the media, but he sees their plight differently.

Fern cutters are paid by the bunch, but if their piecework rate for the hours worked in a week doesn’t equal the federal minimum wage of $5.15 an hour, they get minimum wage.

“If he’s not clearing $500 a week, you will not see a Mexican cutting fern,” he said. “They will go somewhere else.

“So, if there’s 5,000 up here cutting fern, it’s not because they are getting underpaid, I can tell you,” he said, breaking into a laugh. “An average fern cutter and his wife make more than my wife and I do owning this place.”

The past year was particularly hard for Noll and his family. Hurricanes destroyed $55,000 worth of plants and caused about $30,000 in damage to his nursery. He wasn’t reimbursed for any of it. He canceled his insurance policy two years ago, when the premiums soared from $3,600 to $10,250, he said.

And his losses won’t be easy to overcome because sales have slowed by 10 percent to 20 percent since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, he said.

Just the night before, Noll had been up all night, trying to protect his tender shoots from temperatures that dipped toward freezing. He was grateful that temperatures didn’t quite reach freezing. He couldn’t afford more lost plants.

As the interview went on, he suddenly became angry.

“Why don’t you worry about the owners?” he screamed. “They are trying to run a business after the storms and paying the taxes. The workers have had care and been given stuff for months.

“I’m so ... sick of it I could spit. I work my ass off from the day I grew up ’til the day I ... die.”

John Hoblick, a fern grower in DeLeon Springs, said owners have been under a lot of stress since last year’s hurricanes.

“As far as the majority of those in the industry, we have been in the mode of trying to recap losses,” he said. “I understand the frustrations.

“You go to bed with a million things on your mind to get done the next day,” said Hoblick, a board member for the Volusia County Farm Bureau and secretary of the Florida Farm Bureau Federation.

Noll and Hoblick are among a few growers in Northwest Volusia who were willing to talk to The Daytona Beach News-Journal. None of the four Pierson Town Council members who own ferneries, for example, would agree to a sit-down interview. Council Chairman Samuel Bennett said he was tired of negative coverage of fernery owners and feared The News-Journal would “smear” him.

Bennett was in the news in September after he ordered a hurricane relief volunteer to shut down and stop giving aid to farmworkers after the three hurricanes. Bennett said workers didn’t need any more aid — including food, water and medical supplies — and should get back to work, according to Federal Emergency Management Agency officials, who ignored the order and reopened the next day as planned.

Farmworkers said there wasn’t enough work cutting ferns damaged by the hurricanes. They said they were working as little as two days a week and earning $150. But fernery owners said aid from the federal government, Red Cross and other groups took away the farmworkers’ motivation to work.

Noll said he tried to hire workers for $10 an hour after the hurricanes, but “they looked at me like I was stupid.

“There were trucks and semis every day,” Noll said, adding the workers also could qualify for unemployment compensation. “As soon as they were going to pay them not to work, none of them wanted to work.

“They’re not even citizens and babies born every day, free Medicare every day,” said Noll, pacing around his office.

Noll’s views are shared by others in Pierson who say, usually without wanting their names in the newspaper, that their small community has been changed, and not for the better, by the arrival of thousands of illegal Mexican immigrants. They say the immigrants have brought drugs and gangs to their small community.

“I’ve got a poor guy who worked for me. He was in the service for three years in ’Nam and he got cancer. They wouldn’t touch him because he couldn’t get a gold card. I watched (him) die last week. And he’s a ... citizen, never missed a day in his life. Ain’t got no family and they buried (him) in a pauper’s grave.

“But they (fern cutters) get babies and houses and money and everything else. It just makes me sick.”

 

from the Daytona Beach, Florida newspaper www.news-journalonline.com/

Salvador Moreno [illegal immigrant] worked at a fernery for a year and left. Now, he cuts sod and earns about $750 a week — twice what he made cutting fern and almost 10 times what he earned in Mexico.

Their newborn baby, Leslie, is an American citizen. She was born at Florida Hospital DeLand, which was free for the Morenos [both husband & wife illegal immigrants], once Salvador showed his pay stub. Prenatal care at the Health Department cost 34 cents a visit.
___________________________
Proponents and opponents [of Agricultural Jobs, Opportunity, Benefits and Security Act, known as AgJOBS] do agree on one thing: Undocumented workers are driving down wages for Americans. Construction jobs that used to pay $10 to $15 an hour are only paying $7, said Gregory Schell, an attorney with the Migrant Farmworkers Justice Project in Lake Worth.
__________________________
10.3 million: Total number of illegal immigrants in the United States.

5.9 million: Number of illegal immigrants in the United States who are Mexican.

850,000: Total number of illegal immigrants in Florida.

125,000: Total number of illegal immigrants in Florida who are Mexican.
____________________________

i agree that the situation is not right, not for the immigrants or the farm owners - but it's not as bad as 'slavery' and a lot of them are making a LOT of money.