Is it possible to play Locrian in pentatonic? In other words the root of the scale would be a ntoe not actually in the scale because you don't play 7ths in pentatonic?
Any scale or mode can be "pentatonic"-- pentatonic just indicates that the scale degrees 1/2/3/5/6 are played, the others are left out. So Locrian pentatonic would be tonic, lowered 2nd, lowered 3rd, lowered 5th, lowered 6th; so in A that would be A, Bb, C, Eb, F. Nothing to it...
I know you could play it, but would it make sense to play a mode based around the 7th in a scale that doesn't use a 7th?
The Locrian mode has seven degrees, just like all the other traditional western modes. You refer to it as being based on the seventh degree of a scale, which is true to an extent; the C major scale is often used as a point of reference for exploring other modes (Locrian would be B-B), but even then the *entire scale* is used. There is no single "pentatonic scale", it just indicates that only five notes of a particular mode are being used (traditionally degrees 1/2/3/5/6). Hope this helps...
Theory just tends to piss me off, a lot of the time, but one of these days when I find myself having even less of a life, I'll bother to take a look at it. I know it's kind of... wrong, in some people's opinions, to say this, but I've never really needed it. But there's the times when I come to a halt and think I wish I new more theory so I could play jazz a lot more easily... Though, sometimes it feels like cheating.
Cheating? Rubbish... I would say it's more like "having two legs to stand on". What will you do in your jazz group when someone hands you a lead sheet or asks you to write out a tune you brought to the group? Music theory will help you to no end regardless of what style of music you play. I'm not talking about 12-tone systems or Schenkerian analysis, just a basic ability to read and write music and an understanding of fundamental theoretical concepts; not only will other people be able to hand you charts and not baby you through the changes, but you'll be able to communicate your own ideas that much more clearly and succinctly. On a somewhat related tangent, I'm always annoyed when musicians-- especially good ones-- justify their theoretical ignorance with cop-out crap like, "oh, [insert famous musician's name] didn't know theory/couldn't read music so I don't need to either" like somehow this makes them cooler or somehow more legitimate or "authentic". A knowledge of music theory doesn't instantly make one's music cold and heartless, contrary to what seems to be the driving notion behind this trend... Edit to add: Orsino, I'm not trying to take shots at you or anything... You seem like you're pretty knowledgeable about guitar and music stuff (way more than I was at your age); it just kills me to think that people will succumb to this dumb "anti-theory" illusion. If you really love making music, learn as much about it as you can; don't let some idiot tell you that you don't need to know something.
I'm not anti-theory... it's just that I can play a lot without even knowing or understanding a whole lot of it to begin with, then I feel like I'm going too slow to even understand it when I do study it. I can put music on and solo endlessly to it or take turns between rhythm and lead without knowing what the hell I'm doing... yet, I always seem to find myself wanting more knowledge, at times, when I feel like there was no challange. Right now I'm just working around with speed and rhythm... I know more about building and repair than I know about knowing what I'm playing.
I understand exactly what you mean, because I was there at one point as well. I could play all sorts of stuff, but it was all intuitive; when I first started studying theory in college I was really turned off, because they start with the most basic stuff. Sure, I already knew how to build chords and write key sigs and whatnot; with persistence though came a bunch of great knowledge that I was able to put to use. Altered chords, applied dominants, counterpoint techniques I could apply to vocal and instrumental harmonies, and so on. Even rhythmically-- while I kind of understood what the deal was with polyrhythms, beat displacement, and metric modulation beforehand, it wasn't until I had more of a solid theoretical grounding that these really made sense and I could fully grasp the concepts behind them. Just a thought...
Okay, I'll try to explain what I was trying to ask. If you were to play something like a F# Locrian, you would most likely be centering it around F#. But if you're playing in pentatonic and not playing the 7th degree, how could you play it centered around F# yet not play F#? I know you could play it, but would it make sense to? Hopefully you understand what I'm trying to get to now.
Well, like has been said not all pentatonics take out the 7th scale degree. I'm pretty sure that the minor pentatonic keeps the 7th in there...and asian some asian pentatonics don't even have what we call 7ths. Even if you ommited the 7th scale degree from F# Locrian you'd still be playing the F# because that's not the seventh scale degree. It's now the root. But, you can definately imply chords and tonalities without playing the root. It's an old Jerry technique. Say, you're playing an F# arpeggio...and since you're in Locrian it would be a dim. arpeggio. Play your C, than A, then simply muffle the F# and the ears will hear the F# because it wants to hear the F#. You sure as hell could play something without roots...ever...but that would be very unsettling. I mean you could substitute over the chords...play a II, v, iii vamp...You're implying the tonality without explicited stating it. I want recomend breaking down something in F# minor...then really unsettle the whole groove with that vamp, and go back and forth. Music is just telling a story or painting with sound. Remember you never have to start on roots, or end or the root. If you want something to be unsettling/unhappy there's no better way to do that than to not end on a root. Remember the supreme GOD of music theory is your ears. If it doesn't sound right, than it isn't right. That's really where you get all your exceptions, from things that don't sound right. Theory has a tendency to be over-intellualized. Reject the excess. Use your ears.
Try this dude. First a four bar vamp of F#min.-G#maj.-Dmaj-Amaj. Then break it down with a vamp of Gmaj-C#min-Amin.
Friend is right-- if you're playing in F# Locrian, F# is the root, not the 7th. E would be the 7th in F# Locrian.
I'm still a bit uncertain about theory because I've been trying to teach myself but thanks for the help.
i am learning mroe about music, learning stuff helped me heaps. one thing i think though is the more one knows about musical theory, the more one sees it as a function and not a feeling
Knowing it simply helps you realize how it works. If you build a car, is it not easier to build it when you know what needs to be used and how the parts relate to each other?
