I enjoy reading journeys - we all have them - we have navigated through life and each of us has our own story to tell. Who we are and what we think - it's worth sharing. I'd love to hear yours... I have asked the administrators to change the topics here to reflect something different than "gay personals" Putting up an ad is OK - but we are more than that - I spend a lot of time over on the bisexual sections because I do consider myself to be bisexual but I am so close to being fully gay I also want to be here, too. I thought I'd put it out there right here - if others feel that way - do you have things you want to share and get views on? Or are you good the way things are?
Papa, being a bisexual man I feel comfortable in both sides of these forums. I can identify with heterosexual topics as well as gay. While I too spend a fair amount of time in the bi area I don’t feel like I have to confine myself there. Even though my sexuality primarily manifests itself with men these days I still love women. So I guess I feel comfortable in both arenas.
As you may remember from the bi forum, Papa Smurf, I'm like you in that I'm technically bisexual--still attracted to women--but I identify as gay now and only have interest in casual sex and romance with men--and really only gay men (more on than that below). But I haven't logged in to the forums in many months now, primarily because I have been so super busy with work, in fact so busy that I haven't even hooked up with a guy in a long time, except for a couple visits to bathhouses--something that I had stopped doing entirely since more fully accepting by bisexuality 10 years ago when my anal desires exploded and I fucked my first guy (before that it was 20 years of tons of oral only). From 2013 on I only got together with guys in each other's homes. But today I logged in again, and discovered this gay forum. I too would love for this forum to get much more busy. The other reason I may have not logged into the bisexual forum in so long is because, frankly, I have so much less in common with bi guys than ever before, and I'm really getting tired of all the married bi guys that are cheating on their wives: it's very sad. I'm also no longer interested in getting together with a bi guy because I've had a lot of unsatisfactory hookups with them. I'm sure there are many very passionate man-hungry (as opposed to cock-hungry) bi guys out there, but I haven't had the good fortune to meet any of them. With my growing understanding that all along in my life I have actually been fighting my homosexuality, mostly at the unconscious level, but now accepting it more than ever and identifying as gay, I want everything with a man. Unfortunately the bi guys I've been getting together with are pretty much only interested in the cock, whereas I want to connect with the whole man who's with me--his whole body, his mind, his person. It doesn't have to be romantic, but it needs to be fully sexual--just like straight guys are with women: it's not just about breast or pussy, is it? So I just need to finish this humungous project I've been in, and then I will finally be free again to exercise regularly and go on dating apps to meet guys, at least for full out sex (i.e. fucking, kissing, etc.). Meanwhile, for the last 11 months I have also been getting together regularly with a large local gay community of guys, often twice a week for drinks and/or food--except I haven't even had time to do that much in the last five months because of work (12 hour days, 6 days a week). I can't tell you how much I love hanging out with these guys (every Wednesday it's 20-30 guys, and every Saturday it's 6-10). I connect with them at a deep level and feel totally myself when I'm with them. I'm attracted to a number of them, but almost all these guys are married (to each other). There's one single guy I have a major sexual and romantic crush on, but he's not interested (I think I'm too old for him). Yes, this group is not a perfect fit with the path that my sexuality has taken, since almost all of them identified as gay from childhood/teenage onwards, but I doubt I would find any man let alone community with my history in such a small very straight region/county with only a population of a few hundred thousand spread out in a 50 mile diameter. We don't even have a gay bar. Gary
Good to read your post @slayer3737 It's been a long journey for me, too - from the days we shared our views on the forum... I hope your life gets a little lighter soon so you can be back here - journaling, so to speak. I have found it hard to land squarely in the gay camp or the bi camp - I am attracted to women - to the point, I like to look at them, but have not touched or even tried to touch anyone from the female gender in so long - I think I could easily be called a "liar" if I claimed to be truly bisexual. Here I am - a moderator on the bisexual section of the HIP forums - and really, let's face facts. I'm gay. I have not been as disappointed as you have been when I have met up with bisexual men who are married to women. I feel their pain still due to my own disappointments with my wife and our marriage - so I relate to their loss of connectedness with a partner who is willing to communicate about their sexual needs openly. But, I also have a greater need to connect emotionally with a man than most of them. That is very evident.
Indeed! I wonder why you call them bisexual at all, and not heterosexual (with something like a penis fetish or fixation), or at most ‘straight plus’ or ‘mostly heterosexual’. I suspect that your men married to women were the MBTI Thinkers (= T types) that predominate among men. They are less emotional, less holistic, less romantic and less relationship orientated than MBTI Feelers (= F types), who make up the majority of women, and who seem to be strongly overrepresented among gays and most likely in your gay group. It is likely that they also appear more feminine than the average man. MBTI male Feelers feel at home among fellow male Feelers! Great that you have freed yourself from your restrictions and can now concentrate fully on homosexuality.
This is interesting @TwinT I have never seen this personality test put out as more male or more female as the graph you posted shows... but I am INFJ and I would not argue that is where I'm at emotionally and relationally with my friends and lovers... definitely feel that I have a female wired brain in many aspects of my way of life. However, I don't think my mannerisms or behavior, other than my sexual preferences are particularly female. I have definitely met men who are only interested in their own sexual release, and say they are not attracted to the man at all. I am, on the other hand, attracted to the whole man - body physical, emotional, spiritual - complete. It can make it tough at times, but I've learned to protect my emotional response in some of the physical relationships I've had.
In my experience, the 'bisexual men that you are talking about are, "Men Who Have Sex With Men". Previous called bisexual, but now re-marketed. I have been with my hubby just on 30 years, previously married to a woman for 8 years. Those 8 years were the turning point for me realising that I was actually gay and not straight or bi. My confusion was that during my childhood I'd gone through some abuse, I couldn't figure out if I was gay because of that, or was gay because I was gay. After a lot of soul searching, I came to the conclusion that it didn't matter, my emotional connection was with men, regardless of the reason. I think it is a question a lot of guys in my position ask. The issue I have had, as previously said, married guys are purely focused on getting cock, and usually as a bottom. They want to get screwed and leave. We have a couple of app profiles, both stating 'no married guys".
I guess I am an anomaly in this bisexual arena. It makes sense, and it has been my experience. Most men I meet are interested in sex with me but very few are interested in me. It has been very tough to find a man that genuinely wants to be friends that have sex. They as described are generally interested in their own release.
I don't think you are an anomaly at all, @Windman. Most men - especially truly bisexual men or curious heterosexual men are primarily interested in the sexual release of being with a like-minded guy. They have their drinking buddies, and the guys they will go to see a game with - but it seems pretty rare those same guys end up also having sex together. And even fewer are interested in snuggling on the couch while watching a movie!
This has been a big disappointment for me. Whether it’s a woman or man I just want to be with someone I love and connect with. This includes the sex as well as just sitting on the couch and watching movies or simply talking about non-sexual things. A person to go grocery shopping together, climbing, biking, etc, etc, etc. Then afterwards some bedroom fun. I’m pretty much done with women for various reason but they’re more likely to want to share in everything while men overwhelming just want the sex. I thought I found a man over a year ago but that fizzled out. Since then I’ve only met men who only want sex. I’m not interested in the hook up only culture so its been nothing for now.
@Jcinalco You need to come find me, or I need to come find you, my fellow journeyman... we are in the same boat, so to speak. I had a long-term marriage with a nice lady - she, however, was not affectionate, at all. She always waited for me to pursue her sexually which is one of my quirks - I like to be pursued, too. We did enjoy one another's company. I do remember she would hold my hand as we walked from the car to the grocery store, but cuddling on the couch was not her thing... her thing was her chair with her games or social media in her hand... while I sat there in my chair. I might as well have been alone - which is where I am today. I prefer being alone to that. Besides, I am not straight and I was living a lie. It would be so nice to meet a companion. I've learned, though - it does not happen easily among men. We do not look for it. When it comes along, it is when we least expect it and then it hits us like a two by four across the back of our heads.
I guess I'm more bi-curious than anything. I first had feelings when I was still in high school, but never acted upon them. They gradually went away, but flared up again my mid-late 20s. Again, never acted upon them, and went away again. The urges have come and gone in spurts. I have traded pictures with a few guys, and had cybersex a couple of times, but that is it. (I do get off on showing off my pics, and still do when I can.) A few years ago, those feelings came around again but more intensely, and have not gone away. The problem is I'm married and my wife would kill me if she found out. Plus my desire is have anal sex (receiving), which appears to be less common. I've no interest in sucking cock unless its mutual. Like in a 69. Or being spitroasted.
The longer I roam around this earth the more I realize that many men have sexual desires that are not fulfilled in a traditional way. Men who never thought they'd act on a curiosity or an urge to have some sort of sex with another man have acted on it later in their life. The common thread is - they still want to have sex and women have too many strings tied to it. It becomes evident to men it is just easier to get their immediate needs met by meeting up with another man. No strings. No drama. Whether that makes that man a latent homosexual, is highly doubtful. I am not sure that makes him gay, bisexual, curious or just plain horny and practical. Still it takes planning, maneuvering and cooperation for a man to figure out how to hook up with another man and do it safely. Depending on where you live or how daring you are, it can be done and with the reward they seek.
Nothing has really changed for me since my previous post above, September 30, 2023, as @slayer3737 (I probably created this new account of mine shortly after that post, I think because I lost my slayer email account). Like some of you guys above, even though I'm technically bisexual and still find women attractive, I identify as gay now and I'm only interested in sexual and romantic relationships with other men. But it still has been difficult finding the kind of gay FWB I would like, or even boyfriend to be in love with. Most of the other gay-identifying men I hang out with are married to other men. Some of them have expressed wanting to have sex with me (some of them are in open relationships, which does seem to be common in the gay community of men). But I have taken a personal vow to only have sex with single guys: it just gets way too complicated otherwise, with underlying jealousy always there in the spouse. But my vow does bite me in the ass (instead of the guys doing so, lol) because I need way more sex, plus one of the married men who desperately wants to fuck my virgin ass I have a big crush on. So I'm still saying the same thing as you: I'm tired of the bisexual/bicurious/straight men who are only cock-focussed as cocksuckers, or even worse, as cocksuckees. I want a man who is interested in all of my body and soul, and comfortable in me desiring the same in him. And I want to kiss, cuddle, and do other non-sexual things even, like enjoying mutually loved activities--hence the friend with benefits I mentioned above.
I do have to say, @thepapasmurf (the OP), that I agree with you so much about needing much much bigger gay forum(s) on Hip, as every year I have less and less in common with the guys in the bisexual forums, where I have to spend most of my time if I want to take part in gay sex discussions. Where are all the gay men? I want to talk everything gay, not just sex, but with the sex I want to talk about everything involving men making love with other men. God, I love everything about a guy, and want to celebrate that with other gay guys who feel the same. I am so disappointed in the number of threads and posts in these gay specific forums. Is it that gay men don't really have to talk about gay sex and other gay things because they have been living it so much all their lives?
Not sure @RisingBi - it's a mystery to me. Maybe there aren't very many gay men on this site - the gay men I know love to talk... I haven't been on HIP much in recent weeks - time has gotten away from me - and I haven't found the time to check in. I have been partnered with a man now for several months - April 1 will be 7 months. We have committed to monogamy and openness about it, as we go. What that means is discussing any opportunity that we might have to be with someone else must be discussed and approved beforehand. For me, this will limit me - because I tended to be a spur of the moment person who found himself with someone and it was developing as something then and there... I cannot imagine meeting someone else, at this point, and going back to him and saying I'd like to get with this other guy... for me, sex was usually a decision I made at the moment - sometimes yes/sometimes no, but mostly yes...lol. Now, I am committed to this man in more than just sex - we have a relationship - a partnership. I have no interest in any other person. I may see someone I think is good looking, etc. but it goes no further. Why would I? Especially if I have to sit down with my boyfriend and spell it out. That just seems out of the question and terribly uncomfortable. I have been going through the process of a divorce since last Summer. Ironically, I met my partner just two weeks after I told my wife I was going to file for divorce - I'm still waiting for a court date, but I expect it to happen soon. I moved out of my home a few weeks ago and have set myself up in my own place. My partner and I decided it would be best to continue our relationship without living together. I don't know if that day of cohabitating will ever come. We definitely have different styles. He is a minimalist, and I am a collector. We also felt (actually he felt) it would be better for my family relations if we did not live together for the foreseeable future. Right now, I hate the thought of moving again, but this transition to my own place and his living only two miles away has felt silly. We are back and forth, and I am spending many nights in his bed, instead of being in mine. I am happy to be away from the stress and difficult atmosphere of my home and haven't looked back since. We are learning how to navigate relationships. I think I am learning more than he is. I have never been in a healthy male/male relationship in my life. I have never experienced this kind of love. Last night, we were watching a movie at his place, and he laid his leg on my lap and I tenderly rubbed his feet. I had a flashback of how my wife often asked me for a foot rub and I just never wanted to do that for her. Here I am rubbing his feet and loving it. So, yeah... I am gay. Queer as a $3 bill. I maintained for quite a long time that I am bisexual... However, I have not had the desire to be with a woman in so long, I really don't know if I can classify myself as bi anymore. I still find women attractive - but in the sense that I recognize a beautiful woman, or her curves, or how she is dressed, or the cleavage - but there is nothing in me that thinks I'd like to have sex with her, or even touch her. I simply recognize what I see is something I like the looks of. I had good relations with my wife for several years until after our third child was born, and then it was almost like a switch flipped - she was not interested in sex - and I practically had to beg her for any affection or actual sex. As time went on, my desire for her died, and it seems the gay parts of me accelerated - My attraction towards men is fully gay - fully relational, with sex an important part of the equation - but not the only thing - as it seems a lot of bisexual men are all about.
Oh my gosh @thepapasmurph, I was so very moved by your post, and feel so happy for you. You know, there's a very big part of me that would love the same, to have that kind of full gay everything relationship, love and friendship and companionship and sharing activities, and of course lots of passionate sex together. Even if you're not moving in together, but living so near to each other and spending so much overnight time together is perfect for now. Of course you should never contemplate anything with another guy now that you have that. I too am only interested in monogamy, and even have a strict rule of never having sex with someone in a relationship. It only causes problems, even if they call the relationship "open". No such thing, guys. There's always jealousy and hurt. That is so cute that you find yourself enjoying even doing the little things, like rubbing his feet, because he's finally of the right sex, lol. It's who you are, a gay man, and perhaps have always been? Or you've changed, which everyone is allowed. I certainly feel that more and more, looking back on my life (I'm now 62), coming more and more to the conclusion that I've always been gay, but just buried it so strongly deep inside myself, out of internalized homophobia, thinking that I want a woman, getting married and having children. But maybe because society said so? Plus I had desires and attraction towards women, which helped feed that fantasy. Like you, I still have some attraction to them, pretty face and beautiful eyes, and the breasts and curves (but not too much, no hips please--boy-like bums thank you); but I now find pictures of pussy totally repulsive. But women have only rejected me, and in the only two relationships I've had with women, rejected me multiple times in very painful ways. The last one, with a very beautiful, vivacious and cheerful woman, a yoga instructor even, who loved sex a lot, oral and vaginal and anal, and was truly multi-orgasmic, everything a man could want in a sexual partner, I had to end, put that rollercoaster three-year relationship out of its misery just before Covid hit. Instantly, all interest and desire to have any more sexual let alone romantic relationships with women was completely dead, and has remained so. So this woman was the opposite of how your wife became, and I still realized that I'm actually gay. In the end I couldn't have an orgasm while having sex with her unless I imagined I was fucking a guy, and often couldn't even get hard enough to fuck her. She was just the wrong sex for me I realized. I can't tell you how happy and free this understanding and acceptance has made me, living my truth. This is why I can totally empathize with what you're feeling in this wonderful relationship you are finally in. I'm not surprised you met him right after your intention to file for divorce and giving her that news. It finally freed you to live your truth, and of course the universe, and your own mind, provided a guy for you to live it with. How wonderful! I just should've listened to myself 11 years ago when I had anal sex with my first man, the greatest sexual experience of my life, finally feeling that this is home, part of myself inside of him, with him totally, us joined in this beautiful gay union. Oh my God, this is what it is supposed to feel like?! I almost burst into tears while making love with him--I don't know of what, tears of joy or self revelation, my truth? But my familiarity with the I-should-be-with-a-woman fantasy still held me for a decade more, driven by my still there internalized homophobia I think, which allowed me to fall into that toxic relationship with my second girlfriend. Even after realizing I was gay and wanting to live as a gay man, having nothing but sex with other guys, I wasn't fully there. But I believe it was turning 60, a couple years after that break up, that led me to not seeing any reason anymore to hide from myself and my true feelings and desires, that finally let me want a romantic relationship with a guy. For the first time I've developed romantic crushes on a couple different guys these last 2 years, though unrequited. But it felt right and completely natural. I was falling in love with these guys--if only they felt the same. But I'm open to it, finding what you have found, with a guy any age. But even a close friend with benefits would be lovely. I've just been holding myself back all this time because I'm feeling unattractive with the extra 30-40 lbs I put on since Covid, and being so super busy at work, especially the last two years, unable to continue my pre-Covid swimming regimen of 3-4 times per week. I know I shouldn't feel this way, and I know I have a lot to offer another man (or men) sexually (I'm a very passionate lover), if not romantically. But .... Damn!
we are our own worst enemy, @RisingBi It has taken us this long to accept ourselves because we wanted to do that right thing that somehow was planted in our brains from an early age. I can remember just starting out at school and some adult asked me if I had a girlfriend? at 5 years old? I did have a crush on a girl then, though. but it took me years - all through jr and sr high- in the locker room as we showered, etc. But - now... here we are. Let me just suggest that you focus on accepting yourself as you are - it doesn't matter how you look, or that you have some extra pounds. Believe me - I am no hunk. Yet, this man thinks I'm cute, handsome, etc. Maybe he needs his eyes checked, I don't know. I don't know what kind of guy you find attractive... but let me suggest you check out some men's groups in your area. Search for bear groups, for example. There are groups in almost every area. Do I recall you live over the border in Canada, Niagara Falls area? Toronto definitely has some groups and great places to meet gay men. Syracuse, where I live, has a bear meet-up every 2nd weekend of the month - and Ithaca has happy hour and pot each month, too. If you are feeling unattractive - meet a bear. They love a little extra meat on the bones. LOL. The other thing I've learned is this - when you least expect it, he will walk into your life. When you feel desperate to meet a guy for more than a one-night stand, I think we give off a vibe that turns them off. Be bold... pursue a guy. Or even better, don't say no if you are pursued. Chat with him. Be light and friendly, as you would anyone. If you click, you will know soon enough. Men date differently than women - and they do relationships differently than women. I believe you will find what you're looking for, my friend.
Thank you so much, @thepapasmurph. You give wonderful advice and beautiful support always. Ha ha: when I saw you quoted my moniker RisingBi, I was thinking how beginning many years ago that's where I was, and then lately it's been more like RisingGay, and now GayArrived! Lol! Yes, I am in Niagara Falls Canada, and I do know there are groups in Toronto (2 hours), though I would far prefer to find a local guy. I'm not attracted to bears (it almost sounds hypocritical), as I prefer guys average to slim, with average body hair or less or none (i.e. not super hairy). There are events local to me from time to time, and I do go to platonic meetups and parties with a large gay men's Facebook group i'm part of (they're mostly married to each other though, few single), and I almost attended a local bear event a few months ago to perhaps meet more of my type of guy but a bear admirer, but at the last minute I had to work. I know I just have to get over myself, and just be honest in my online profiles, and just happy with how I am--just be the great guy that everyone says I am, lol, and someone will be interested. I will try. Me pic attached:
Well, @RisingBi you are a fine-looking gentleman, and I am sure - when you stop worrying about it - and just be you - go out and have fun - next thing you know, someone walks up and starts chatting - and who knows... I have heard it said, and I am living proof - when you least expect it - and when you stop searching for that Mr. Right, and accept your life as it is - then, doesn't he walk into your life and mess it all up (joyfully). One of the best features a man can display is contentment in himself. That is somehow noticed by others - I am not sure how - but it does exude a certain confidence and self-assuredness that seems to catch the attention of others.
