Chinesse City restricts abortions in response to vanishing girls

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/17/international/asia/17china.html

What I don't get is why the chinesse view males as an asset and females as a liabillity

 

Because they're sexist idiots. I mean don't they realize it'll be bad when all these boys grow up and there's no girls? Besides that just makes me sick..what you don't love your baby because she desn't have a penis? I couldn't imagine having killed my son because I wanted a girl!!! Even if I could only have one kid! (heck I only want one kid LOL) If Jeremy had been a girl instead I can't imagine loving him ANY less. That's what I don't get, I mean are they so emotionally dead that they don't love their children? Or they only want a kid so they can make some money for the family? What kind of people are these???

 

You really have to understand their culture to understand the importance of having a boy. You can only have one child. You have to get a permit from the government to get pregnant with that one child. The country has no social security. There is nothing in place to care for the elderly. The custom is that the oldest son cares for his parents. When a girl marries she becomes a part of her husband's family. She cares for his parents not her own. Therefore if you have a girl and no son, when you are too old to work or take care of yourself you just die. Your daughter can not leave the family that she has married in to to take care of you. You're alone.

Selective sex abortion is illegal. So is placing your child for adoption or abandoning them. But all of these practices go on every day. Little girls "Disappear". Then the family can get another permit to have another child, hoping for a boy. Some of these little girls are taken out into the woods to die. The lucky ones are left some place where they will be found. My two goddaughters, one was found in a train station. The other was found in the courtyard of an apartment complex. Both were adopted by their mother in this country. Over 5000 little girls are adopted by americans every year because they are not wanted in their country of origin.

It's not the fault of the parents. It's the fault of the laws and customs in China. It's a sad sad situation.

Kathi

 

Yup.. totally agree.. it's all a matter of culture, tradition and politics.. in a country where girls indeed become a part of the boys family, son ARE more 'worth' because otherwise there will be no offspring to look after the parents when they are old. It's as simple as that.

By the way.. don't the 'one child only' laws apply throughout the whole of China? I though there were different laws for different regions.. like very rural regions have no restrictions. It's the same idea that most Chinese people aren't allowed to travel to HongKong, even though it's a part of China as well. China can be weird that way.

But yeah.. the 'one child only law' is weird.. you can't just enforce a law like that (which in itself is perfectly understandable) and not have any good backup like a solid social security system or some kind of 'reward' for getting a girl child.

 

"It's not the fault of the parents. It's the fault of the laws and customs in China. It's a sad sad situation."

I understand that to a point, but some of them leave the babies out somewhere where they won't be found? Where they'll die? No talk about laws or cultue is going to make me sympathetic to THAT. I also want to say what the hell is up with China? They won't let the people give their kids up for adoption? I mean hell that would virtually eliminate people killling their babies...hopefully

 

No, they cannot LEGALLY give a child up for adoption, if they want to have another child in the future. One child allowed per family. The lucky girls are abandoned in public places where they will be quickly found, and they are then brought to orphanages and become available for adoption. Thousands of Chinese girls (and a much smaller number of boys, most with special needs) are adopted internationally every year.

A good friend of mine has adopted 2 Chinese girls, and I accompanied her on the trip to pick up the second. As terrible as the orphanages are, they are much better than the alternative. As long as the one child policy is in place (and overpopulation isn't going away any time soon), the ingrained cultural sexism will result in many unwanted female children either being adopted out of the country, aborted, or killed shortly after birth.

 

Yup true.. if you give your kid up for adoption that means that you had one kid and therefor can't have more.. so that kinda defeats the purpose if you want a son. Does anyone know how that works when you have an older child that dies from an accident or disease or something? Can you get pregnant then? Just wondering..

About the people that leave their kids behind in places they have little chance of being found. I don't know what the statistics are so I don't know how common this is. Leaving it to be found somewhere would seem better, but than you have the chance of someone finding out you're the parent. Killing it and dumping it would be more humane than ditching it somewhere to die on it's own.. but not everyone has the heart to kill a child first hand. Same as many people eating meat who don't feel like slicing the pigs throat themselves.

Plus, don't forget.. it IS a totally different culture. There are different ways of living, different traditions. Human sacrifice for example was pretty normal in certain areas.. and 'muti-killings' are still happening in countries like Haïti. It may distress us, but before we go point in shock and horror, let us turn to our own culture and own lives to see what's going on here. There are kids dying of abuse, kids born with an addiction from crackmoms, kids living in poverty (yes, in our western society). Why do we let this happen? It's easy to blame another culture for what they are doing, but realise that our own culture is far from perfect either.

EllisDtrip: that's so cool that your friends did that.. I'm thinking of adoption as well.. the main thing that is holding me back is that I'm afraid the kid will have severe attachment problems if they had a lack of primairy care-takers in their first period. How are those two girls doing? Hope everything is alright and they'll grow up to be beautiful lively woman!

 

It's really hard to understand such a diverse, and ancient culture as China has. I have heard it said, "Girls you feed. Boys feed you." People want boys as they often help support the parents (as others have said) but there is also a cultural preference for boys. This isn't something, we as Americans, or Candadians or Western Europeans can hope to understand, much less to remedy. China has it's own structure and it's own ideas.

It is sad, and perhaps even cruel, and I am not saying it is "Right" but is is beyond our ability to understand, and even if we did, what could be done about it?

 

The girls (my goddaughters) are 7 and 10 now, and doing just great. No real attachment problems that I am aware of. Their personalities are completely different. The older one is the stereotypical girl, everything frilly and pink, while the younger one is the typical tomboy. I went over to get the younger one, and she was pretty sick when we got her. Poor nutrition, diaper rash from hell, serious ear infection, lung congestion, etc. The older one was in perfect health when they got her. It all depends on the orphanage they were in, and what part of the country they come from.

Our son was adopted from Guatemala, and was in a foster home rather than an orphanage. Other than the first night in the hotel with us, he also shows no sign of attachment problems. The first night he screamed for a couple of hours when he realized that his foster mom wasn't coming back to get him. Pretty heartbreaking, but he was all smiles and love when he woke up the next day...

 

I think you and I feel the same on this issue. Why isn't someone saying, "I'm chinese and I'm not raising MY kid like this,"?

In a way, it's best though. Most adoptive parents want girls. (Again, stupid gender reasons.)

What's even more asinine now: Since so many people want these beautiful little girls, only married couples are allowed to adopt. (In the past, single womyn were also allowed.) There are also strict age limits on when you can adopt a baby/toddler. It's not about who is most qualified to have a baby; it's about who fits the "perfect family" image.

I have to say, overall, I am impressed with the way Guatemala handles adoptions, plus the kids are gorgeous!

If Ellis revisits and doesn't check his inbox, just a question: Was the agency you used non-denominational? (It'll be a decade or more before I have kids, but I'm not Christian and most agencies seem to be, although I'm primarily interested in domestic... Does your agency handle strictly int'l? I'll probably adopt as I have a history of infertility and bad medical history in my family that makes breeding unwise.)

 

Abyle, check your PMs for agency info....

My friend adopted her daughters as a "single", back before China started cracking down on it. She would have to lie on the paperwork if she wanted to get a third, because they now require a sworn legal affidavit that any single parent is not gay/lesbian.

China is becoming very strict about requirements in an attempt to limit the number of adoptions. Apparently, the large number of girls being adopted out is a source of shame to the government (but selective abortions and infanticide isn't?!?!), and the state child welfare agency wants to get China out of first place on the adoption lists before international attention is focused there during the 2008 Beijing olympics. So they are enforcing all kinds of "unofficial" policies about age, income, educational level, health status, etc. We heard about one couple who was denied a child because the father had unpaid parking tickets! We were originally trying to adopt a daughter in China, but were denied (without being given a reason) after 14 months waiting. This was shortly after the China Center for Adoption Affairs got a new director appointed to start the crackdown....

I wouldn't suggest China to anybody who doesn't fit the perfect yuppie family stereotype these days...

 

China needs it's one child policy as it is already suffering from overpopulation. But Chinese officials are going about it the wrong way. They should put in an effort to make girl babies more attractive and they are not doing it. They could give tax breaks to couples with girl babies, OR if the government can't afford tax cuts then they could charge more taxes to couples with boys.
They have to do something to counter the culture preference for boys or they will have a HUGE proportion of the male population that gets to look forward to eternal bachelorhood with no hope of marriage, certainly that should raise the worth of girls.
BTW adopting the girls out of the country will only exasperate the descrepancy of the boy:girl ratio, not solve it. I think this is why chinese officials are becoming more reluctant to have all the girl babies adopted and not because of national image as mentioned.

The tradition of the dowry in some parts of the world also work to devalue girls.

 

"No, they cannot LEGALLY give a child up for adoption, if they want to have another child in the future. One child allowed per family. The lucky girls are abandoned in public places where they will be quickly found, and they are then brought to orphanages and become available for adoption. Thousands of Chinese girls (and a much smaller number of boys, most with special needs) are adopted internationally every year."

They can't legally give their child up for adoption and have another child but if the kid DISSAPPEARS they can have another one? I don't even know what to say. That is the most asinine thing I've ever heard in my life. China needs to be shamed as far as I'm concerned. I mean I'm sorry, I'm sure this borders on racism but how DARE they be shamed by all the girls being adopted? How FUCKING DARE THEY. If they were really all that ashamed about it then they'd fix some of their fucked up policies. I mean are the leaders there the stupidest people on earth? You know in America they try to stop you from having your tubes tied and you have to wait until you're a certain age! I mean I'm sorry but they could find a way to make the one child policy work, either by letting you give up your child for adoption or helping outparents with girls or something. Everything you people are saying makes me respect China less and less....and less and less... I'd better just leave this topic alone before I end up offending someone as much as all this offends me. I mean I'm sorry but I just don't care much about ancient tradition with tiny babies are dying! Most free countries don't follow "ancient traditions", maybe this is why??????

 

"I think you and I feel the same on this issue. Why isn't someone saying, "I'm chinese and I'm not raising MY kid like this,"?"

All I know is I NEEDED my baby as soon as he popped out. He's a part of my body and soul...he grew in my tummy! I feel so protective of him, if anything ever happened and I lost my marhmallow puff, I'd never recover. I mean I realize I live in a western culture, but I want to take care of my baby and make sure he has everything I have to give, I'm not thinking about what he can do for me when he grows up, what he can give me! I just can't fathom how these people can leave their little puffies to die or even for someone to grab, why don't they feel that attachment that we (as Western parents I guess) feel?

 

Ehm.. it's not so hard overthere to conseal a pregnancy.. if it happens, the woman stays indoors as soon as the belly shows and when the kid is born, it dissapears. Besides, not all women have an obvious pregnancy-belly. The whole trick is not to let the officials know you are pregnant.

Now you're making it sound like all the people in China are murderers and uncapable of attachment. I know it is hard.. but things work different in other cultures and that has little to do with being able to attach or love. In some cultures the children are supposed to kill their parents before they get too old, because they believe that the state you die in is the state you will enter the afterlife.. therefor the older you let your parents get the less healthier they will be. That's normal overthere and accepted by everyone. Chinese parents probably feel that if they can have only one child, they want to keep that child with them for the rest of their life (and probably not just for financial/social security) reasons, so they want a boy, since a girl will become part of her inlaws family.

It's a different culture.. that's it.

Normally, whatever practice another culture has, I accept it as theirs/different. But what I DON'T understand in all of this, is the fact that the government doesn't seem to be concerned about the male/female balance. That's just he one weird thing I don't get. The only logical explanation would be that fewer women PLUS the one child policy means only fewer and fewer children in the future. Or.. maybe.. they are planning on starting a huge army and need many men for that.. I dunno. That's the only thing that boggles me.

 

"Now you're making it sound like all the people in China are murderers and uncapable of attachment."

No not all of them, just the ones who abandon or kill their babies. I'm sorry, but I don't feel like I have to have respect for a culture that causes situations like this...a culture that is stuck on thinking women are worthless basically. Should I also have respect for the cultures who cut off womens' private parts? Should I also have respect for the cultures with slavery? They obviously DO NOT feel the attachment that I do (if noone else understands what I'm saying) if they CAN abandon their baby. If they can actually put their baby (their flesh and blood) somewhere and never come back for them, then they don't feel the same attachment...The more public the place they leave them the more love they feel I guess... They want to keep their one baby for the rest of their life but they're A-Ok with abandoning three to get the one baby that's "good enough"(translation: male, can take care of them later)? Please spare me. A lot of other countries have changed with the times, while holding on to at least most of their culture. Thats' what they need to do. Instead they make up a bunch of asinine restrictions that make no sense!

 

Hey.. you don't understand what I'm trying to say. I'm all for equal rights and I hope that someday all cultures will refrain from sexism and racism, be caring of people and animals, respect nature etc etc.

What I was trying to point out was that the people in China who are getting rid of their baby girls aren't beast.

You give the example of female circumsicion. Who do you think mostly preforms these kind of things? Out of total free will? That's right, the mother and/or grandma. Why? Because that's their tradition, that's how things are done. That makes their culture and tradition shady.. but not the people who are performing it. They don't know any better.

The key lies in education.. trying to break the cultural and traditional dogma's. But before we start doing that.. who are we 'westerns' to point a finger? It's easy to focus on the atrocities in other cultures, but there is a LOT going on in our own culture as well that is horrible.. maybe we should look at ourself first before trying to mold other cultures to our image. My fear is.. if we start influencing China on the baby-issue.. and that is 'fixed'.. than what will it be next? Where will it stop? Do we want them to become like us? Do we really?