The future.. without the internet and otehr technologies

what if.. the solution to the peak oil problems was.. to completely get rid of computer technology and go back to simple technology of yesteryear.


where would culture go? no internet.. possibly no television.. though everyone would have a radio of course.

plastics would not be as common, and there would be a huge heap of thown out rubbish that would have to be utilised somehow

a whole planet's resource gone!

i think it will be a wake up call and the world willl be forced into implementing solar panels like all over the planet

 

That will be what happens, but I am almost certain it will not be achieved because people choose to, by looking at the future and actually planning for it, doing something constructive. We're going to continue on the same path, oblivious, with the growth-crazed economics continuing until it all comes crashing down.


You ask where we would go? To the fields of course, so we can eat.

 

I think it's a very interesting thought. What if we all went back to how the people of yesteryear lived. You don't even have to go that far back even your parents or more so your grandparents. I think we are loosing alot of great things from past generations. My great Aunty was and is an inspiration to me she had a very hard life but she never ever complained about anything or anybody she just got on with it. Her generation was brought up to be happy with clothes on their back, a roof over their head and food in their stomach. Everything or anything else to them was a bonus. As I said before she was and still is an inspiration to me. If I can be half the person she was i will be more than happy. I think we should talk to and let older generations influence our lives. They had the ight idea we must make sure we remember, and realise before we are forced to regret when we can now longer ask them for help and advice. They won't be around for ever, we have a short time to learn so much but we must do it before they are all gone.

 

No Tv might be very good!


But it's possible that some new form of energy will be discovered. Otherwise, they may eventually have to mine rescources from elsewhere in the solar system.

It would be very bad indeed to loose the current levels of technology, and in fact, would very likely mean the end. For one thing, there's piles of neuclear waste we will need to monitior very carefully for centuries to come.

But also it's only with technology that we have a real hope to alleviate age-old human problems such as poverty, disease etc.

Myself, I hope the energy problem can be solved.

 

I almost don't. There is no reason to believe human nature will somehow change if we find a new energy source, and will suddenly start helping the poor in a meaningful way. Sure, send them some food, but don't address the key problems of resource exploitation and populationg growth.

As far as nuclear waste, a curse on humanity for ever doing that. We have basically wrecked the planet for millions, perhaps billions of years thanks to that. We won't be around forever to watch the storage areas, and the longer we continue on with growthmanic economics and population growth, the more we ruin the environment with nuclear waste, heavy metals, fossil fuels, etc. The only thing keeping us on this path is cheap energy. I just wish the return to non-industrial living didn't have to be so full of death and destruction. This is the main thing that keeps me from really hoping for an oil crash: the billions that will die, the wars, famines, possible nuclear accidents or attacks, the frenzy to use the last resources for fuel (cutting forests even faster, for example). I can stand off and say it's better to live without industrial civilization, but I am human, and I really don't want the suffering that is sure to come.

By the way, poverty is a result of civilization, especially industrial civilization (hunter-gatherers/primitives don't have poverty like we do. If a person is hungry, he is fed. They have less material wealth, but that's not the definition of poverty). As some people get really rich and live really well, others must necessarily become poorer and poorer. We suck the resources out of Africa, Asia, and other third world areas to fuel the high living standard in the West. There are not enough resources to make everyone live like Europeans.

Technology cannot solve these problems. The only really good thing about it is the medical area, the lowered infant mortality and better emergency medical care and surgery capabilities. Losing our medical advancements would be worth mourning; I'm not sure about the rest of it.

 

My only point about neuclear waste is that now we have made this mess, we will need science in the future to sort it out.
The same goes too for many of the problems of modern indutrial/techno civilization.

You are right that civilization has created many problems, including poverty, and in a hunter gatherer society, it wouldn't really arise to anything like the extent. This began though not with modern technology but ancient farmers.
Also, to return to being hunter gatherers would mean a very drastic reduction in the numbers of humans. Civilization has given rise to this massive exploding population - And medical science can only serve to worsen this, if a reduction of population is what we want. But to have any hope at all of coping with future needs, increasingly high tech solutions are probably going to be the way it will have to go.

Myself, I'm not ina hurry to see a global crash. Nor do I think the life of a hunter gatherer would be very good. I hope even that it can be averted. I don't see science and technology as the problem necessarily, it all depends on how they're utilized. The current capitalist system is unfair, and exploitative to a totally unacceptable degree. But things could be different. And we could retain the benefits of technology. We just need as a spieces to learn to use it for the right ends.

 

Agreed, unfortunately it seems as though a drastic reduction of human population will occur with the oil crash.

True, but it seems unlikely that with more technology, we will change enough in behavior to actually solve the problems. Not that humans have no hope; but it's a dim hope, that human nature will change it's direction and actually stop being selfish. The thing is, technology isn't the problem, but it also isn't the answer, and the sooner we realize that the better. But how can you convince people that they deserve less so that others can have more, even when you're talking about the rich American sacrificing something trivial (say, having a small hybrid car rather than an SUV) so that a poor African can have food? The climate of thought is, and has been for a very long time, "I'll get mine, and don't care if you get yours." It's culturally reinforced so many time over that it would pretty much take a cultural collapse to change anything.

 

Your absolutely right - it will take a big shift in people's attitudes if there's to be any kind of improvement, and if disaster is to be avoided.
I agree that if there were a big collapse, that would force people to wake up, and see how artificial and false their solely materialist and selfish values are.
Problem is that then it might be too late.
But I think there is hope. Ordinary people have given millions for example to the tsunami victims. So that's a sign that ordinary people do care. It's the system thats to blame I think. It's like a frankenstein monster out of control.

But there are political dimensions too, and to my mind the US is not doing anything like enough. The British chancellor, Brown, recently proposed a plan jointly with other european countries to cancel debt in Africa. But it got vetoed by the US govt. Don't imagine btw that I'm very impressed with the UK govt either. But Brown did have, and still has, the plan, which could make very big differences across Africa.
And then there's Kyoto.
It will need a big global effort with America firmly at the forefront if these issues are to be tackled.

 

Ive always thought of that, like post apocalypse earth, everyone living in tribes and scavening through the remains of technology.

Its kinda cool thought, but can be disturbing.

 

BBB, I just wish I had your optimism. I consider it too late already, but I guess I can hope I'm wrong.

Distressingly, our aid for the tsunami victims is worth, what, a week of Iraq-War money? Shows where our priorities lie. Maybe that isn't a fair accusation, in fact, it probably isn't, but it just really says to me that we'd rather get oil than make the world a better place by relieving suffering.

 

humans need to stop putting faith in technology because we are humans, not computers! we should be putting faith in people. get rid of the greed and evil that is in the world, instead of creating new ways to be greedy and evil.

and when teh world runs out of fuel, there will probably not be enough resources to set up a solarsystem-mining problem. we should start conserving our fossil resources very soon, otherwise there wont be enough to sustain an effort to find alternative fuels.

if war breaks out, im goin to live in the country and grow chickens and vegetables and shoot rabbits and take drugs. id join or set up a colony for all the people who dont want or need plastic and petrol to live

 

No - your right, the tsunami donations are very small compared to the bill for the Iraq war. I only mentioned it to illustrate that it's not ordinary folk but the system that is the problem.

As for me - I'm not really an optimist or a pessimist - I think things are bad, but that human effort could, given a big change in attitudes away from capitalist consumerism, change things for the better. Whether it will happen remains to be seen. There is a high chance it will all fuck up.