This may sound petty or old school on my part but it has become a bit of a concern of mine. I'm a 45-year old return student. My instructor is about five years my senior (and is a woman). My classmates are in their 20s. A few of the male students use language that is "inappropriate" in a classroom setting. Suffice it to say that we are striving towards becoming healthcare professionals and that the choice of language would be suitable for jail, prison, or a seaport bar. I'm not a prude, but I feel a bit put off by this. Part of my feeling is that I was raised to believe that men were not supposed to use foul language around women. Anyone else encounter this or have any comments?
As a woman, I absolutely despise that attitude. I find it demeaning, as if we're somehow too weak or delicate to deal with bad language. I don't use a lot of it, and I wouldn't particularly approve of it in a professional health care setting (although I'm sure quite a few of the students know that during their study, they are not actually interacting with patients, and the fact that they use it there doesn't mean they'll address their patients that way!), but please don't ever try to 'protect' us. As far as I am concerned, it's not appreciated. If it bothers me in any situation, I will say so myself, I don't want any men to make that decision for me.
I think the idea that womyn can't handle swearing is far more offensive than hearing any seemingly crass phrase. If you really respect your instructor, let her take up for herself. If the swearing bothers YOU, say something. I'll brashly speak for all womyn when I say we don't need any man to "stand up for us." And I should mention, as far as swearing around me goes: I'm a Celt! My people INVENTED swearing. One last note: I agree with Myranya. I don't think your intentions are bad, but please consider whether or not you're respecting your instructor as an equal if you think she's too frail to hear the word "fuck."
Ok think about it. Swear words are harmless syllables. You are only offended by them because you are *taught* to be. By being offended by them you are giving them power over you.
Amen, sista! Frankly, if you're worried about what we women might overhear, you should have a listen to what we say when no guys are around... Most of the guys I've known who were priveleged enuf to sit in on a group of 4-6 of us wimmin-folk when we got onto certain subjects were shocked -- made the stuff boys discuss in the locker room look like a Disney movie! I don't know any women who don't want to just spit fire when they hear that misogynistic "can't cuss around a girl" crap.
I know a guy that apologized for saying the word 'crap' to me, and another that is offended by 'fart'. I know two women whose mutual nickname for each other is pusscunt. It takes all kinds. A hospital is no place for any unprofessional behaviour, and foul language is very unprofessional.
Amazing!! A guy starts a thread, hoping to 1)sound professional and 2)avoid offending women. Apparently his attempt to avoid offending women is itself offensive. How strange.
Okay, you're just being a fou asshole. Duncan wasn't trying to be offensive at least; he asked for comments. Womyn aren't sensitive, crazy creatures that need to be mollycoddled from "bad words." We weren't offended by Duncan, we were offended by the idea of a man feeling it was his job to protect us from swearing. Duncan's intentions were good, but the belief is archaic and implies womyn are not equal to men. It is not professional to act like womyn are the "weaker sex," and that attitude will not fly in the healthcare field, which is by and large dominated by womyn. You're being an antagonistic prick. If you knew anything about womyn and had a single close wommon friend that you discussed these sorts of issues with, you'd get it. You think you can simply bully people into agreeing with you by acting like a wiseass? In the spirit of the womyn who posted here: Fuck off, Mike! At least Duncan came here with an open mind.
I work in pharmacy. I talk to doctors, nurses, and pharmacists all day long. They all talk like sailors, amongst each other, but NEVER too or around patients... Personally, I LOVE it! "Professional" is just an image, or at least 90% image...IMHO.
Restraining ones language around women is NOT because of their sensitivity or inability to handle strong language. (By the way, I know several women who use strong language. "FUCK YEAH!" is the favorite exclaimations of one of my woman friends.) It is because it is the defined courteous thing to do. Courtesies are not a reaction to nessestity. Another example is opening doors. If a man opens a door for a woman, he is not implying that she is incapable of doing it herself. He is perfoming an unnessesary service as a form of courtesy. That lack of nessesity is a component of what courtesy is. I am observing and objecting to the habit that some younger people have of diggining into things to find something at which to take offence. This is not a sex specific habit. One example is the PETA's objection to the NY township's name, "Fishkill." I was annoyed that people were taking offence when none was offered.
If you want to get into a discussion of courteous behavior, it is courteous to restrain one's language around those one does not know well, regardless of gender. If I were talking someone I just met, I would restrain my language without concern for any physical traits of the addressee. I would expect a man to do the same, regardless of whether he is talking to a man or woman. Also, as you mentioned, it is courteous to open the door for others. Should it only be men who open doors for women? That idea is offensive. Rather, neither the gender of the person opening the door nor the gender of the person for whom the door is opened should matter. I open doors for men as often as anyone opens doors for me. Yes, I find the suggestion that gender should matter in cases of general courtesy to be offensive. These practices stem from a time when women were viewed as inferior, as the weaker sex. I don't suggest throwing out common courtesy, I merely suggest throwing out the gender-specific nature of certain courtesies.
So? It's just words sounds kinda prude-y to me Why should you change your language because it's a woman? That's sexist
I'll reply with one question that explains why all the womyn here said what they said: Why change your language around womyn only and not men?
Opening a door for someone is courtesy if it's done because it's a nice thing to do for another person, it is not courtesy when it's done because the next person through happens to be female, while you'd have let it slam shut if the person behind you had been a man. Unless I'm in a great hurry, I usually hold the door open when I go through and someone is following closely behind; I don't look first whether it's a man or a woman. 'Courtesy' that is aimed at one sex only *does* imply weakness; it may seem to you that it's just a habit, but that habit is left over from a time when women were seen as weak and delicate and in need of protection. If it were indeed a general courtesy, then it'd be normal to hold the door for anyone, regardless of their sex... it'd always go like when I go out with a group of friends (male & female, for most of my friends don't hold to the old conventions), whoever happens to reach the door first holds it for the rest. And about taking offense while none was offered, well, this is an open forum and if I see something I want to comment on then I will, that's what a discussion forum is for. If you don't want a discussion, what are you doing here? Plus Duncan explicitly mentioned as part of his reasoning that he was raised to believe men aren't supposed to use such language around women and he literally asked for comments.
ehehhh... I think I swear more than my schoolmates, male or female. I don't swear in class usually, but no one even gets close to swearing (I say bloody a lot when trying to make a point... not really a swear though). I do swear a lot with friends, particularly when I've been drinking. I also talk a lot about sex with galpals, even while in public, and I ain't afraid of using "****" when I wanna. Hell, I have a hotpink button that I wear around school that says **** on it anyways, I would hope that they curb their swearing patterns when actually dealing with patients at least. I imagine they will... language generally clears up a bit with age (with some exceptions of course)
Duncan, I think a gay, male, 45 y-o nontraditional student going into nursing, might want to examine assumptions. Swearing should be avoided period, not just around "ladies" (pardon me while I recover from the vapours). Tell the department chair. Probably won't do anything. Call the users of the laguage down. Maybe its such an ingrained habit that they are unaware that their "party" language should be turned off along with their annoying cell phones. (guess what my pet peeve was) As for the attack on Mike, chill out. Mike and Duncan are of a generation that did open doors and pull out chairs. My generation opens the door for the person holding something. Or take turns. I walk faster than my male friends. I'm often first at the door. So I play dorr person. Fair enough.
Duck is a word in the english language. so is fuck. There really shouldn't be such thing as "foul language." Go download the 7 dirty words by George Carlin.
