Is Nationalism A Good Thing?

Hear Hear Glen.
Hear Hear.

Kenny

 

glen

Why can you explain your thinking?

 

Boy did that question bring deafening silence from the peanut gallery.

 

Well I don't understand that. I've made clear I agree with the concept of being citizens of Earth.. But then why someone would feel that way and then want to segregate everything in space? That makes no sense. But then again the kind of people who idolize Che Guevara often don't make much sense.

 

Pat

Glen and booze are two of life’s followers in my experience they are not big on doing their own thinking.

 

There are people in this world that if it's not white bread, grits, or potatos, it doesn't fit into their narrow worldview.

 

I'll play devils advocate.

There was an idea by Louis D. Brandei of states as laboratories of democracy. Meaning one could try novel social experiments without the risk to the rest of the country. But there's been a lot less experimentation at the state level.

If it were at a spaceship level, people could try out their social experiments in space, and everyone who got on board would be willing to try the libertarian experiment or whatever.

In reality, I think this would probably end up with a lot of really weird space sex cults.

 

Ha. I think you're right.

 

Or a lot of dead bodies

 

I think one problem is.. The ideas might work better as an experiment in isolation, without opposing ideas getting in the way. But that seems too easy, somehow. Maybe I just like the idea we can learn to run utopian societies together.

Opposing ideas are often useful.. Help us grow.. Find flaws in our methods..

If we segregated into these isolated society experiments and then just stayed that way forever, it might be fine. But the minute we come into contact with an opposing system, we won't be able to handle it.

 

Hey look at this, Balbus is posting outside of the political forum! Alright now, which one of you let him out of his cage?

Ok I’ll admit, only one of them had a Che poster in his room and had an admitted history of flag burning. The other 2 weren’t as passionate to my knowledge.

Che iconography has a thing with wannabe rebellious youth who ironically don’t even realize how conformist they really are. He was a racist and a murderer.

Not at all. To clarify, every nation has its own cultural identity. Many people born and raised in such nations grow up with similar norms, values, and customs. But everyone in a nation is a unique individual as well. Some might find themselves with a vastly different point of view with their country of origin and may find themselves a better livelihood in a different country (or space station) all together by becoming expats. Others stay inside and work with what they’ve been given. Even if a bunch of people of any given ideology formed their own space civilization, who’s to say that every succeeding generation will feel the same? Some might hate it there and want to leave and join another space station.

What about all libertarians and right wingers you complain about? You like the diversity of having their ideas around too?

 

If it was set up to be libertarian or socialist which form of libertarianism or socialism?

And once chosen the only way to keep the ideology ‘pure’ would be by eliminating any dissent from it (either through banishment or execution)

That way leads to madness and as Drift says stagnation.

Much better to have freedom of expression (protected by regulations) where differing views are discussed in an open and honest way and those that seem the best are taken up.

The enemies of that are those whose ideas don’t stand up well to scrutiny, and therefore refuse to debate in any honest way.

 

6

What do you mean by cultural identity?

And why not a multicultural society?

So in your view if someone has a differing view from the dictated norm they have to leave or conform – what if they don’t want to leave or conform?

Yes of course I do – the only problem I have with certain of them (like you) is that they don’t seem willing to enter into honest and open discussion of their ideas and seem to carry on holding on to views even when they can’t defend them from criticism.

LOL differing views can be helpful even when they teach you what's not a good idea.

 

I wouldn't over-analyse the thought experiment. Just like Atlas Shrugged, it's better glossed over and thrown away.

 

The thing about Nationalists is that there does seem to be an assumption of there being a common identity or of them bringing one about

As one description has it -

It [nationalism] further aims to build and maintain a single national identity—based on shared social characteristics such as culture, language, religion, politics, and belief in a shared singular history.

It is based on ideas of conformity not tolerance.

The thing is what happens if there is dissent?

As someone says above then the people should either leave or conform totally to the dictated norm. But if someone is born in that country and is a legal citizen of a it why should they leave or conform?

And that is why I think nationalism is more likely to turn ugly than not.

We are the inhabitants of one world shouldn’t we be looking to things that unite us and work toward that rather than trying to find things that divide us?

 

"Nationalist" seem to primarily be a group that also wants to blame diversity for their situations and failures. They tend to have the idea that if those different than them were gone that they would somehow magically be transformed into what they think they should be, as opposed to what they are and will always be.

 

WWI was triggered by the assassination, but the major countries had been in an arms race for years leading up to it.

 

Nationalism is inevitable, just like fans at a football stadium or a rock concert. It never ceases to amaze me how many Intel, Nvidia, or AMD fanboys can be insulted by the suggestion their capacitors are not Japanese and their power supply did not cost more than its worth. While I understand the appeal, too much of anything is not a good thing, and the question is how to encourage people to look at the Big Picture more and argue less. Football players taking steroids and destroying their brains for fame and fortune, while their fans riot and the Mafia cancels all bets, is not my idea of a sane solution.

 

In itself I don't see nationalism as being a bad thing, though, if taken an extreme (like with most things) It can become a negative.