** I have, (rather amusingly to my friends) been called ‘bitter’ by someone on the forum, in fact the person seems to go further and accuses anyone that has doubts over the Bush admins handling of the Iraqi situation ‘bitter’. But he is not alone many right wing punters have accused anyone that is critical of their creed or beliefs, bitter, it is an accusation that regularly pops up in the Townhall site diatribes. In fact they even accuse moderate right wingers of the same offence. The thing is why do they think we are bitter when so many who opposed the Bush policy in Iraq have been proved time and again to be right. Their has been so many fuck up committed by the right wing policy makers that it is difficult to know where to start. People didn’t think the evidence was strong and it turned out not to be, people thought troop numbers were too low and they were. People told the policy makers that Chalabi and the exiles were not liked in Iraq and they weren’t. People told them not to disband the army but they did... So on and so on, one fuck up after another with those they now call ‘bitter’ always being right and them wrong. These people shouldn’t be bitter if anything they should be smug. The reason why they are not is because those fuck ups cost so many people their lives. But in fact the ones that seem to be acting so smugly are the ones that should feel the most shame. They go around crowing about elections taking place in a country that is in such bad shape due solely to the very policies they have supported those policies that have constantly turn out wrong and made things worse. The left is not bitter but it is annoyed at such stupidity and the right shouldn’t be smug it should be more questioning. **
i dont' know why anyone would be bitter anyway. there's at least some small hope that this nightmare may have a happier ending than it did a beginning. though i'll admit, i won't be quite so annoyed about the lives lost and money spent if this struggling nation comes out okay.
Make no mistake... It ain't over in Iraq by any stretch. The bitter ones, are the ones the US calls "terrorists". In Iraq they are the Sunnis who've lost power, prestige & their beloved city of Falluja. Do you expect them to just roll over or disappear? Expect the war to go on and on. It won't end. The US can try to "bomb them back to the stone age" but it JUST WON'T WORK! More and more Americans and Iraqis will lose their lives daily so Bush can brag about how he's bringing democracy to the middle east. His puppet Allawi won't last more than a couple of months. That's cause he'll be assassinated. I know he's a shoe-in for the presidency, even though polls showed him finishing 3rd! That's cause the US has rigged the elections, just like they did for ol' Dubya. Ran out of Ballots? Yeah right! Guess they needed an awful lot to stuff those boxes with Allawi votes. The Iraq war has been a LIE from the start, and the lies are now so thick people believe whatever they're told. The Iraq army is a joke. We should pull out and count our losses now. But that won't happen. Bush's friends need another $80 billion or else! Meanwhile, back at the homefront, the war over Social Security is just a' heatin' up!
All the bitterness talk is coming from the right. They are hoping that the left is bitter so they can feel like they have "won" something. it is silly for the left to be bitter when there is some hope of Iraq getting their country back (which was all we have wanted anyways). We didn't want to take it over in the first place.
Yes, so they had a damn election. So what? It doesn't in any way justify the 100,000 or so innocent people killed, never to be counted, in this unjust war. Nor does it justify destroying a country with a decent infrastructure, just to get ONE GUY. Nor does it make anyone who knows the score "bitter." It does amaze me, Balbus, that somehow the Right is using this puppet election as a way to say "Ha ha you were all wrong about opposing the war." It makes no sense. They had puppet elections when Saddam was in power. How is this different? The guy that Dubya wants is going to get in (and probably assasinated, as Skip pointed out, which is one reason they have TWO vice presidents) and things won't change one bit. Bitter. I don't think so. The war was wrong from the beginning and a silly "election" doesn't change that.
I agree with everyone's posts and I do find the name calling amusing by the far right. I feel compassion for the poor Iraqis whose only crime was to be born in Iraq and are suffering under Saddam and now under Bush. Military occupation needs to end & the reconstruction (as in REBUILDING buildings, water pipes, etc) needs to begin. Let's remember the victims of this terrible war. Peace & Love
Well before the election we were "unpatriotic" and now after the election they say we are bitter...They just can't seem to grasp the idea that we disagree with that Buffoon in office for any legitimate reasons. They are the blind ones. They just don't grasp the concept that war is wrong, getting rich at the expense of others is wrong, destroying the environment is wrong, trying to be the biggest bullies on the block is wrong, rewriting the constitution to suit their twisted perceptions is wrong, censoring the press and controlling the media is wrong, mortaging the USA to China and Japan is wrong and dangerous, torture for any reason is wrong.....and so on and so on. But because we speak out against these wrongs we are bitter...Where in the constitution does it say that I'm not entitled to a different opinion than those in office? Where does it say that I can not voice my opinion about government policy? No where, but because I choose to exercise my right to speak my mind in opposition to the Powers that Be, I am bitter, I am unpatriotic. When in truth, I am actually being more patriotic than those who try to silence me. Arrogance is a major force of evil and I have never seen the USA be so arrogant as it has been since GWB has been in office. This "we are right and the rest of the world is wrong.." attitude sucks. This arrogant attitude that we are the greatest nation in the world therefore other countries should feel priviledged to kiss our feet has brought down many powerful nations in history. Nations reap what they sow...We are creating terrorists faster than we can kill them...and those in power foolishly believe they are making the world a safer place. Let's have a WAR for PEACE....what an absurd concept!
That person was me, and I still say Balbus is bitter. The left is bitter, many would have rather seen the elections fail out of pure spite, just has they would have preferred that elections in Afghanistan fail. Any success by the US in Iraq must be denied, and if the Iraqis themselves celebrate their elections, then I guess they lack the political sophistication of left wing Americans and Brits thousands of miles away who apparently know better than they do. Because its not the Iraqis who decide if their elections are valid, its anti-war activists in Ohio and Birmingham? Remember the supposed conspiracy about the Saddam statue? Some people are so deep in denial they couldn't believe that Iraqis were happy to see a statue of Saddam torn down. How bitter is that? It has only become worse since then. How can I honestly be expected to believe that someone who claims to have opposed Saddam and supported human rights in Iraq for decades decides, the day after Iraqis risked their lives in an astonishingly successful historic election, that the most important thing he has to write about in hipforums is an anecdote about how back in the '80s someone he knew overheard Irish Americans express their support for the IRA, therefore implying that Americans support terrorism? Someone is avoiding the elephant in the room, and that elephant is democracy in Iraq. You can't even see straight with 20/20 hindsight. Chalabi made a comeback and ran in the elections, he actually seems to have found his political base after all. And does anyone, ANYONE, actually believe that if we had kept a Baathist corrupted war criminal Iraqi army intact that Balbus would not today be decrying the "emperor's new clothes" Iraq where we just put a new flag on the old beast? Of course he would. If you wanted to say that elections don't justify the war, fine, but that's not what people are doing here. Out of pure spite they are ignoring what the Iraqis themselves think and are determined to simply deny what happened. Iraqis voted, and they cheered, and they celebrated. Even Iraqi communists participated. But who wasn't cheering along with them? Our beloved anti-war left.
well said PB I do honestly believe that many people around the world were hopipng the elections would fail out of spite for the US and bush. They dont care that it would cause the death of countless iraqis. The hatred in their heart for the US/bush is close to that of the terrorists. Those are some of the sickest human beings on this planet. Unfortunately, there is a good amount of them on these forums.
Fail? these "elections" have succeeded in doing WHAT? Putting a new puppet government into Iraq, who will only be too happy to do Dubya and his minion's bidding? "Here's the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss........" WTF difference does it make? Someone's mother or father or child died under Saddam or died from an American Bomb Attack or a bullet meant for an "Insurgent?"
Intent. Its a big difference. This election will have installed a democratically elected government. Why are you so bitter over that? Geez, lets think about this. The government in place is made up of many people who were repressed under saddam. The US liberates the country and these people will be given the chance to run the country. Of course they are grateful for the US. They need the US for atleast the short term. But yes, they are a puppet government. How you spite the people who risked their lives to vote. Arent you ashamed of yourself? Let them have this victory.
** I could ask Point why he thinks I’m bitter but what would be the point? He I believe doesn’t want to debate things with me, the reason I believe is that every time we do chat he end up either agreeing with my viewpoint or agreeing with me by not putting up counter arguments and leaving the discussion. In fact we have discussed at one time and another most of the things mentioned in his post, the significance of the Saddam statue, Chalabi, and the Iraqi army disbandment, if he wishes to discuss them again I’m happy as I’ve told him before we can try and dig out those old threads or he can start new ones, it is not me that is afraid to debate them as he knows. ** It is strange he brings up the IRA post, it was in the thread, ‘My views on America and Other countries’ one not started by me and had nothing to do with the Iraqi elections and isn’t even in the same forum as this one, I didn’t happen to think it was the most important thing I posted that day and I had actually written at length about the same story in a thread some time ago. The thing that I’d like to ask him is why he found it so important to the Iraqi election issue, the chain of logic seems bizarre? **
Balbus, is your favorit topic Balbus? Seems so. Its interesting that on that historic voting day, someone who protested Saddam and supported human rights in Iraq for 20 years couldn't find anything positive to say about the elections, instead you were up to your usual anti-american smears and busying yourself with other topics. I find that interesting. Anyway pretend you don't see anything amiss if you like.
Wrong "[size=-1]we're keeping 120,000 troops there into at least 2007, even if they call for withdrawal tomorrow" -[/size] Pentagon regarding Iraq. Are you going to tell me that how, a occupided country is going to be free to run its country? I'll tell how Bush tells them to run it or he'll overthrow them. Just have to look how Bush ingore the voice of Iraqis demanding direct elections, or the voice of Iraqis demanding the CPA give far more contracts to Iraqis. Sure when those Iraqi know who their master is the puppet goverment will leave but the troops will stay incase the people get any ideas about thinking of wanting too much democracy. So you want that vote these people that risked their lives for to be stolen by US imperalism?
