January 20---Wear A Keffiyeh In Protest Day

You do have a good point about protesting in this manner Irminsul. And I understand now. Yes, a lot of protests go that way.

But let me explain why I think this is different. Have you seen anyone in this thread speak up and say---"I want to do that!" or "Where can I get one?!" Putting on a keffiyeh is not something one can do easily and get away with----if I walked around looking like my first picture on this thread you can already see that it wouldn't be easily accepted, even as a protest. And as I said, numerous people have pointed out that doing so in their neighborhood would get them beat up, or even killed.

It is not something someone can wear lightly to make them feel better than everyone else. Putting it on invites exclusion and being ostracized. It would be far easier to dawn a Native American head dress which would be offensive to Native Americans, and would represent exactly what you are saying.

I can pretty much guarantee that you will not see a bunch of Americans dawning keffiyehs for a day of protest.

Will wearing a keffiyeh change anything----well, as I said, in a previous post---the shock value alone creates a discussion and makes people think---this post is now over 100. But certainly by itself it is not enough. And certainly as Islamaphobia progresses, it cannot be a 1 day thing. There needs to be additional action taken. It may seem like these protests do nothing----but in the 60's the repeated efforts of the hippies and the Black Panthers, and you name it-----we changed the world. Peaceful protest just stopped the Dakota Access Pipeline in North Dakota---maybe not permanently, but for now. The more people that get active, in what ever way they can---the more likely change will occur.

I do not believe in Islam in such a way that I would convert. And I have already expressed my feelings about the institution of religion. But I have traveled the world over, and experienced many religions, including Islam in a way that would allow me to peak at it from the inside, as if I was a believer----and I believe that every religion has truths, and in fact, that every religion is closer to every other religion than people even know. One of the books I have been working on is, in part, a history of religion all the way from its indigenous beginnings, and stresses how closely aligned each religion really is.

I therefore very strongly believe in the right for all people to worship the way they believe, and the religion that speaks to them, or connects them with their ancestors. I think I have made that clear through out this thread, even when I criticized christianity, for example.

Therefore for me, and I hope for most who would even attempt to do such a thing, there is a sincere and authentic reason to do such a thing. In every protest you do have people who just want to participate in order to feel better than others. Or to play in the charade. But this is a statement against the Islamophobia that is running rampant in this country---people who are being discriminated against---because of religion/culture/race, and this angers me, and I will stand up for them as I do for Native Americans, and as I do for many others. (And I am, as a matter of fact, very active in the Native Community supporting their rights and fighting discrimination----and I have been for many years now.)

And this is after all, about race as much as it is about religion---and a keffiyeh is not a religious item. But non-Muslims associate it that way.

What traditional purpose are you talking about? It keeps the sand off in blowing sand, it protects from the heat and the sun, and it provides warmth in the cool weather. Right now in the US it is cold---and the keffiyeh adds warmth.


First of all, as I have pointed out over and over---the keffiyeh is not a Muslim thing. It represents Middle Eastern culture, but not Islam itself. It is traditional, and the color and other aspects can have a cultural significance representing nationality, rank, clan, and so forth. But more than anything else, it is a piece of clothing meant to deal with the elements.

I have asked all my Muslim friends long ago if my wearing a keffiyeh was offensive. They all responded no, and thought it was great that I liked it. When I bought one in a Middle Eastern store a few years ago. the Arab store keeper was impressed with my interest in Middle Eastern culture (I am interested in any and all cultures actually), and he showed me several ways of tying a turban or wearing it in other ways too (most of which I already knew, but I didn't want to offend him). Most recently I asked them about this as a protest, and they have been very supportive. In fact, some of them have said they would love to join me, but aren't brave enough under the current political climate.

In Europe the Muslim communities were not offended when it was worn there, like a scarf, as a protest. They saw it as a symbol of solidarity and support.

The Hijab is a different matter, as I pointed out in the very first post-----not that it is offensive to the Muslim women who do wear it----in protests supporting their right to wear one, they have seen other women women wearing them as a show of solidarity and support. However not all Muslim women wear hijabs in the worship, and those who don't see non-Muslim women wearing them in protest as a sign of promoting conservative Islamism. SO what do they say about it-----that there are Arabic head scarfs for women other than Hijabs that they can wear instead!

In fact, as I understand, even the US military had their own versions of keffiyehs that they wore, and that you can buy in Army Surplus stores. If it was offensive to Muslims to wear a keffiyeh, do you think the US Military would issue them?

Therefore I disagree about it being ignorant.

 

I think that when your only desire to wear such a garment is for a protest then it becomes ignorant because you're trying to fit a stereotypical view of how Muslims dress and isn't that stereotypical view exactly what you're protesting, in a way? That is in a way discrimination in my eyes.

You should walk and march and protest hand in with them but by remaining as yourself. If thousands upon thousands of people buy the headdress and they continue to wear that on a daily basis then I couldn't really say much but I know that I'd be lying to myself if I said that I thought that would happen.

If I was a Muslim I'd probably have to ask myself, why can't they stand up for me at any other time, why now? Why can't they stand up for us as Americans like they are? Why do they need to imitate our ways? Why is such a garment only appropriate to protest their agendas?

It kind of feels like using another culture to fight your own battles. That none of the other protests are working, so we may as well use a foreign identity and stereotypical view as the next wave of assault.




I did not sleep well this evening, blame this thread directly. I asked myself many times am I wrong? I read and read, I asked questions, and I read again. I still think I'm right by what I feel.
I wouldn't want a non German to try and support me by imitating my ways and dress and for them to feel that that act in itself will have made a difference. I'd rather they show up by my side, wrap their arm around my shoulder and march with me. That shows me more support. They came as themselves, for me. For us etc.

Unity in numbers, not a dress code. I guess.

That's all I have. That's all from me.

/

 

I, like many others in this thread are just pissed off that our Obama phones are gonna turn into alarm clocks in 4 days. So we're gonna take to the streets wearing pussy hats or keffiyehs to stick it to whitey!

 

He's YOUR president, and we're stuck with him.

 

6, I have only 1 thing to say to this, Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa HAH! I am not worthy to address such brilliance, but I tip my non-pussy hat to you.

 

Don't worry, you'll eventually stop shedding your liberal tears.

 

Oh the internet. Why make an intelligent statement when you can just be insulting?

 

Or nonsensical!

 

Or honest!

 

First of all Irminsul, I sincerely apologize for stressing you out. I urged you to look at your own feelings, and I debated a bit, but I certainly never intended for you to stress out so much that you had trouble sleeping.

We all have feelings about things----and we cannot determine that this feeling is wrong and that feeling is right. It is what it is---feelings. I understand that you don't feel right about this kind of a protest---and that is fine. I wouldn't hold it against you. I hope you didn't take my posts as an attack on you. But I do apologize. It’s all cool.

There is a Jordanian couple that lives down the street from me. And I invited the husband over for coffee---he is a friend. They are not Muslim, but Christian. But he is very uneasy about Trump, and what it means for even his relatives to come and visit from Jordan. …And how people see him and his family. I had him read this thread and see what he thought.

He wanted me to add that there are a lot of people from the Middle East that survived by laying low and not bringing attention to themselves. In America he does not want to bring attention to himself. It is safer that way, and he thinks most Arab people here would probably feel the same way. If he tried to stand up he would probably immediately be labeled a terrorist.

He then added that Arabs do not wear such things here in America because they want to blend in, and be American. They don't want to stand out looking like a terrorist. He said, "There are lots of Americans protesting for the Arab people, but who pays attention to them? If you stood up with a shemagh or a keffiyeh around your head, everyone will notice---but you are a white American, so how can they call you a terrorist? You could wear it where we probably should not."

I had to admit to him that if there was a group of us, I would probably wear it as a turban, but by myself I may stick to only wearing it as a scarf.

He added that when foreigners are recruited by Isis they go to the Middle East and trade their Western clothing for Arab ones. No one cares what race they are, or what color skin they have. Why should anyone be offended by me wearing a keffiyeh?

But he understood what you were saying---if you live in a country wear no one wears such things, it would seem silly to you, or like you were playing or acting. In his opinion though, it would be a noble act. He would be happy to see someone stand up and do such a thing for the Arab people.

So I asked him if he would join me. He feels that since he is actually from the Middle East he has more to lose. But he agreed to go out with me and wear his shemagh (Jordanian keffiyeh) as long as we both wear them as scarves.

He also pointed out that he thinks that the reason why a keffiyeh is a good statement is because it does have political connotations. You could say that the keffiyeh was Yasser Arafat's trademark look. He mentioned some other examples which I can't remember (and 1 or 2 that he told me not to mention because they were bad examples----as you can imagine. ;-) ). I suggested that it was kind of like revolutionaries back in the 60’s wearing green fatigues and he agreed.

But Irminsul, your sensibilities are not wrong:

This is generally true. For example, I would never wear a Native headdress as it would be offensive on many levels, including feeding into a stereotype.

I was trying to think of other examples, for example, a Japanese kimono. In that case it don’t think it would be offensive to a Japanese if someone were to wear one in protest to show solidarity with the Japanese. Kimono’s are still worn in Japan, but generally for dressing up on certain holidays and special occaisions or traditional social functions. In fact I still have a very expensive kimono that my first wife’s parents bought me, and a yukata—summer kimono that I would wear with my wife when we went to festivals. I doubt the Japanese would be offended. However they would find it comical because a protest would not be a practical use today. And considering that most Americans would hardly know how to properly wear a kimono, tie the obi and so forth----it would probably be pretty comical.

Apparently, as my friend pointed out, it has to be a politically charged motif. A kimono is not. In the 60’s a green cap with a red star was---it later became more of a fashion statement. The keffiyeh is very commonly used in the Middle East by many people and yet it is politicially charged.

My friend and I talked about this. We decided that with a few people there is the shock value of it that gets people to notice it. This involves standing out on your own risking ridicule, attacks, and hatred is it is probably more noble---a greater sacrifice. With many people it becomes a movement and stands to make the biggest impact as in force in numbers. But as more people join in, at some point it becomes merely a fashion statement and then the impact is defused.

There is the stereotype that Americans are very geocentric---and don't really care for people outside of their country. Unfortunately it is true for many Americans. I on the other hand, am well travelled and see the world from a global perspective. In fact, I think that National Identities are becoming obsolete, while Cultural Identities should be protected and carried into the future. I speak fluent Japanese, my Tagalog is pretty good, I can read Chinese, I am getting to a level of proficiency in Lakota (a Native American language). I can struggle through Ancient Greek, and can at least ask for things in France, Germany, or Russia (Never been to Russia, but still remember some of my Junior High and High School Russian.

Trump represents a whole mess of agendas that we need to address. Racism is among those issues, and so is Islamophobia. In 2016 there were 385 Anti-Muslim Criminal Acts that were reported at a National level. Unfortunately there were far more that did not make it to the National News, and even far more that went unreported. This is worse than it has ever been, even after 9/11. I have stood up for Muslims for quite a while. A few years ago, a Sikh temple was attacked by a gunman, who mistook it for a Muslim temple. I stood up and was very vocal for both Sikhs and Muslims. And even the keffiyehs---I have worn them for years because they were warm and comfortable in the winter, and I have worn them as a statement of solidarity with my Muslim brothers and sisters---and all Arab brothers and sisters.

The same with the Hispanic issue. And other racial issues---I stand for Black Lives Matter, and Native movements. Such problems are serious issues, and I don't simply use them as another means of protesting the government, and no one else that I know does either. (But like my Jordanian friend said---who pays attention to some white guy protesting.

The issue of racism against Arabs and Islamophobia is not something we would fight to further our own agenda----I see how it can be used that way---but it is a shared problem, and the Arabs and Muslims are the victims.

But don’t feel bad, don’t worry. You are entitled to your opinions and you bring up good points. Not everyone would want to stand out and protest in this way----there is nothing wrong with that.

 

I went into this knowing that you and I were going to head butt and as always it was important for me to speak up on a subject that was frustrating me. I'm a decent person, your view on this was never going to change my opinion of you which is a good opinion, I think you're a good man. At the end of the day;

You are expressing opinions on why this is a good thing.
I'm expressing opinions on why this isn't a good thing.

End of story, really. We can see mutual respect for one another, you can feel that. We're solid.

None of the above was stressing me out. What stresses me out are the low blows from others. I don't think I was ever directly attacking anybody for anything in this thread. I might have been headstrong in pointing out what I believe, but my opinions of anyone individually were never going to change whether you do or don't wear the head scarf. I don't feel that my understanding is going to be reciprocated. I sit here knowing I've lost a lot of respect from members over such a petty deal really, it's sad.

I'm a strong young woman, I'm head strong in my beliefs, I will stand by my beliefs and by myself. I'm ready to squash any friendship in doing so.

The point of an open forum is to specifically get people from all walks of like to share their thoughts and opinions and express them which in turn, educates us all on other walks of life, that all people aren't the same, that we all form valid opinions for ourselves. That's why I posted, because I had a different opinion. It shouldn't have to come to me losing sleep over it. I shake my head at that. I don't feel that I should be ashamed of my opinion, but I feel that certain others should feel ashamed of how they decide to express their disapproval over the opinion of others.

I also feel that, with me at least and my unpopular statements, that if a girl so broken can fight, argue, disagree etc. with almost everyone here, and she can let bygones be bygones, let it all run off her back and still continue to remain friendly, respectful with a desire of nothing more than to "add" to our site here, then in another unpopular statement and opinion, I think some others have a lot to learn from me.

I am upset with myself only because I lost sleep at the expense of the opinions of sheep. And I really do think that's a good saying for this thread. You're the shepherd, you've got a mile of support (sheep) and I seem to be standing on the outside licking my chops. lol.

From the moment I hit "add reply" what I will be taking away from this is, a few people will scrunch their noses up at this insulting and nonsensical post of mine. I'll get a LOL outta that and all meanwhile, you and I, remain friends.

 

Plus a keffiyeh looks super annoying. Everyone can enjoy some real life troll time.

 

Good words! I mean, there were many good things---I'm just highlighting a core point.

 

Howdy , Wolf .

All I ever hoped for Obama is that he earn that Peace Prize . His kindness for the N Dak gathering has been satisfactory for that - it allowed a great gathering of the tribes .

Now his protection is gone and should the pipeline cross the Mizoo , it's really nothing to get mad about . (That pipeline is laid about 4 miles to the NE of my Iowa farm , and funny how the pipe sections were painted a deep and lovely green.)

The world's gone crazy , we don't have to .

 

Yes however the Bible also tells the husband to love their wives. True love is self sacrificing so the husband is to find out what his wife wants and try his best to fulfill it.

 

Your posts are rather long winded and skimming through them I didn't see a specific example.

Can you provide a source?

Again, source? Besides he's right. According to Islam she isn't supposed to talk in public except for a few exceptions.

There's evidence saying that what President Trump did wasn't a result of racism but rather the tenets themselves not holding up their part of the deal.

When a religion is currently responsible for most of the terrorist attacks today and as we speak ruining Europe then a TEMPORARY ban until we can PROPERLY vet them is a common sense approach.

 

It would be funny to see a bunch of the people at the inauguration to be wearing them

 

Well, it's over. How many people wore one?

 

I wanna see photos. If none of the supporters here wore one then I wanna know what the point of getting all our emotions worked up was for. That's something terrorists do.