Spirituality Without Religion

Sticking with the metaphor, it's kind of like the saying "Mom's spaghetti is best."

It's what many are raised on in those crucial developing years. There is a spectacle aspect of religion which likely appeals to the young, developing mind. With the stories, the rituals, the specific music, the preacher/rabbi/etc attire, the rites of passage. Etc.

I agree, however if spiritual experiences are inherently ineffable in certain aspects, people likely may not know how to further develop their spiritual lives. This probably leads them to gurus, priests, rabbis or other types of authority. How may one move closer to actual spiritual experience if they are unsure on approach to get there?

 

Nature is my church.....
who says it better than mother nature?

I find the connection to all things looking at sunsets, stars, the ocean, etc.

 

I agree. What I find surprising is that more people never seem to question their conditioning. And actually, without gaining the insight that we have all been conditioned, I don't know that any kind of 'free' spiritual experience is possible.
So by eating only mom's recipe you never get to taste any other spaghetti, or even think about trying lasagne.

 

One of the things I like about Native American forms of spirituality and similar things is that they only talk about things in nature rather than the constructed symbols of most 'civilized' religions.

 

I like what you said, although I think some types of Paganism finds ways to distort these concepts and make it about just as Supernatural focused as monotheistic religions.

 

Nothing has taken my breath away like nature herself.....
I was just thinking about euro rail and travelling around Europe...OMG....travelling through the Swiss Alps.....and looking out the window and seeing them so close in all of their glory......i cannot think of a more spiritual experience.......I had.....I was left speechless for hours.

 

^but that is just it, to use your own words....a trap.....someone's idea or ideas that needs others to follow without thinking for themselves.....no thanks.

 

Possibly the best post you ever made.

 

Why do you think so? Yes, seriously. Personally I saw much better posts of him (in this thread alone already). This one doesn't even seem that accurate.

 

I wonder just how spiritual we are already. I mean do we possess spirits inside of us, or are we all holograms and avatars?

Decidedly, the universe is far too big to suggest that we are simply made of mundane stuff. I think the material world gets a bad rep -- no one really knows what it's made of! That's because everything is relative to its environment, and we can't fathom the scale of our environment.

 

Most of the spiritual people I've met had no true religion. I think that's why they were so spiritual, nothing ties them down to focus on what's important to them. What a wonderful way of living.

 

I like economical use of words. It's an art.

 

spirituality is faith.

religion is following in line for faith.

 

I agree, but only if the content is sound.

 

I too thought he used an elegant metaphor.

 

Could that be simply because you share his (subjective) view on religion But just because we don't feel gathering sunday morning with our religious community singing hymns as a spiritual experience doesn't mean it is removed from the original spiritual experience at all. To me at least that sounds like a tainted observation. Not objective. And to pronounce it as (one of) the best posts seems merely done out of an agreement with the statement. Unless of course Karen just ment the metaphor, but that is only half of the post.
So if its clear to all of you that being part of a religion or experiencing spirituality in a religion is removed from the original spiritual experience (whatever that means), I would be most grateful if that would be explained (it must be easy if it appears to be so clear)

 

As the metaphor suggests, as religions develop they become more and more set in their ways, rigid and dogmatic and mechanical. Dogmatism leads to a narrowness of mind that is not conducive to any kind of expansive consciousness which seems to be a feature of spiritual experience.

Also religions each allow only certain experiences any validity. As a Muslim you're only allowed a Muslim type experience. You're not allowed to have an experience of the goddess for example. If you do, you can be certain it's the devil in disguise.

I don't see any evidence to suggest that the majority of religious followers have any real spiritual experience. It's mental consent to dogma on one side, and emotion on the other. Faith, and not experience, is the watchword.

 

I can appreciate the methaphor part about the religion. But not the part about the spiritual experience. I've seen it and hear people sincerely proclaim it (but most importantly seen it) that they have a real one.

To say sitting at solstice with a bunch of new age fans at stonehenge for example (or another proper pagan spiritual experience) is a real spiritual experience and a church service or other aspects in a religion that focus on the spiritual experience can't be called just as real or spiritual seems incorrect to me. I think it is generally based on misunderstanding, and some times even bias. When we talk about a spiritual experience it is about the people in that religion more than the religion itself. After all, no people no spiritual experience (with religion or not)
Just because there are dogmas in a religion and maybe even in the beliefs of a person doesn't mean there isn't faith. So that doesn't have to be a problem (although it may be for some). And... a spiritual experience has nothing to do with emotion?
That you didn't saw evidence of it tells us nothing at first. Have you been actively looking to witness it for example? And about the majority of religious followers.. if that includes every person that calls themselves a christian. I don't think a lot of them are looking for an spiritual experience. Not sure we should include those people in a thread about spirituality with or without religion. It doesn't say anything about the spiritual experiences a religion might have to offer or not, but more about why certain people are part of such a community. A different matter.

 

I'm not advocating replacing old time religion with woolly new age stuff, druids etc included.
You're right in a sense that on one level there's no difference between that and a church congregation - on other levels there seem to me to be marked differences.This is getting away from my main point, but for instance, those pagan or would be pagan types who gather for the solstice don't all share the same beliefs. They don't have scripture which claims to be the infallible word of god. They are free pretty much to choose how they express or celebrate their beliefs. True, some Christians may feel much that way, but the vast majority don't. They are tied to ritualistic forms of religious observance.
But as I say, that's not really my own direction with all this. It's mainly harmless fun as far as I can see. Not much very spiritual about most of it.

Part of being in a group is to experience the group. On a deeper level there's maybe a group mind that comes into being. But I don't personally think that is really 'spiritual'.

I'm interested to know how you would define 'faith'. One meaning would seem to be an assent that a particular belief is true despite lack of any actual empirical evidence.But to have faith that a dogma is true doesn't mean the dogma is true.

I think that emotional experiences are often taken to be spiritual experiences, but I'm not sure they are really. I think to qualify as truly spiritual, an experience would have to take you beyond emotion, beyond ordinary mind and thought.

I've met many Christians in my time, none of whom really made me think they were having any kind of spiritual experience. Also spent time with Hare Krishna devotees. In that context I've certainly experienced emotionalism being mistaken for spirituality and dogmatism for philosophy.
I also know a number of followers of Buddhism, who just seem to treat it like a kind of social club.