Defend the Second Amendment!

Paw

OK to you the world is a frightening, bad place were where you fear for your family’s and you own life and that is why you feel you need a gun – so much so that to you having a lethal weapon that was designed to maim and kill people is the same in your eyes as the simple precaution of locking ones doors at night.

And to me the sad thing is that you just seem to accept that as your ‘reality’ it’s what you think of and accept as normal – BUT WHY?

I mean you seem to think any alternative is as possible as a land of gumdrops and lollipops – BUT WHY?

Why can’t you imagine something better and why seemingly can’t you think of anything that might change things, your only reply to what you see as ‘reality’ been seemingly to have a gun and hope you can draw first.

Why do you accept this as your ‘reality’?

For example you seem to accept that there will be unlit streets in dangerous neighbourhoods, but haven’t you asked yourself why the neighbourhoods are dangerous or even why are they unlit?

 

Watts developed the steam engine in 1781, I dont think they foreseen the Apache Helicopter coming out of that..

 

Can you cite this from any other source than John lotts twisted imagination?

When I search the quote, I get exactly 8 results. All either right wing sites, or gun advocacy forums.

 

Pet my dog , his name is IED..

 

There was nothing irrational in my post.

The militia act of 1903? So what? War coming soon to your home town?

Dude get real.

 

Rocks, clubs, bows and arrows, swords, flintlocks, gatling guns, repeating rifles,grenades, planes the drop b**bs, huge ships with massive armaments---it just gets better and better doesn't it? It's been ever thus. Why would this facet of human nature ever change? Excesive power, excessive money, radical ideas----the basest of desires still drive humanity. The ideas/ideals for equatable, sane societies to happen exist.

The former is much stronger than the latter, obviously. What to do? Hell if I know--I have no ability to speed up the evolution of humanity.


To add: I do have as much right to live as maniacs do. Maybe more. Therefore, as much as I hate the thought of it----I will kill anyone that tries to kill me and I'll take the karma for it, if such a thing exists. I suppose that's the way most people feel and rightfully so,IMO. I was not born to die for an insane group of "people" with insane ideas.

 

That is why debate and respectful free speak is important to the advancement of civilisation and the evolution of thought.

So ideas can be presented and examined to see if they stand up to scrutiny and criticism in a rational and reasonable way – and if ideas cannot stand up to scrutiny and cannot be defended from criticism then they are probably bad ideas that should be discarded.

The problem is that some people seem to wish to hold onto ideas they cannot defend from criticism in any reasonable or rational way and to me that should be highlighted and confronted in the hope that they are marginalised so they do the least amount of harm.

 

I don't think it works that way. They will vote the contrary just out of spite! lol

 

I love gumdrops. Yum.

Yes, I'd love to live in a world of gumdrops and lollipops but I don't. Neither of us do. If we did we wouldn't be having a conversation about crime or guns.

I don't "seem" to accept there are unlit streets in dangerous neighborhoods, I know there are. Some of it has to do with poor infrastructure and some of it is intentional to mask criminal activity. I grew up in those neighborhoods. It wasn't a great experience. My wife grew up 2,600 miles away in Los Angeles - they had metal bars on their windows. They weren't decorations.

Hoping for a better world is all well and good, and I work hard to make sure my family has it better than I did, but happy thoughts don't address the "here and now". They certainly didn't save anybody in Paris the other day, did they?

Perhaps you missed my earlier comments - I had a gun pulled on me when I was 24, taken hostage on a bus when I was 14, and fought a fellow soldier who came at me with a knife when I was 22. My father was stabbed when I was 6 - he survived because he had a gun. My reasons for owning weapons are well justified.

You'd never know it if you met me. I don't advertise. It's a personal matter, though I've enjoyed the conversation.

 

Paw

As I say it’s sad - you seem to have become so accepting of things that you don’t even seem able to think of any alternative and have stopped (or possibly never have given any thought) as to how to make things better – even been asked to do so only provokes a sneering sarcastic response from you.

Yes you know there are dangerous neighborhoods but have you asked why and what could be done to make them less dangerous?

Have you wondered why the infrastructure is so poor?

Why do kids (like you did) have to experience growing up in such conditions?

Why was it that your wife had to have bars on her windows?

Is it that your only response to this bad situation is that to just accept it as a reality that never will and never could be changed so the only thing that you can think of to do is to get a gun and hope you can draw first?

But what about other people what about your society – let’s say your kid doesn’t have to grow up in a dangerous neighborhood but what about all those other kids that still will?

Happy thoughts are all well and good but what about pushing for a better future beyond the here and now?

[SIZE=12pt]Why not aim for a future where people like you are not so afraid that they feel they need a gun for protection? [/SIZE]

 

Hoping doesn't doe anything but give you the experience of hope.Good thoughts are easier to handle than bad ones.

 

You seem to think I live in a world of hopelessness and despair. I don't. I'm quite a happy person with a wonderful family and a successful career.

 

You don't occur to me personally. I was just passing on information.

 

"Gumdrops" wasn't a sneering sarcastic response. I was making a joke. And I like gumdrops. I have a bit of a sweet tooth.

I am making communities safer. Do you know what I do for a living? I install Public Safety systems. I travel the country installing and maintaining 911 PSAPs. If you get hurt and call 911 I'm one of the people that makes sure the phone rings and the call taker knows where you are (Yeah, I know "call taker" sounds silly but that's what they're called in the 911 world). I spent the last 5 days trying to troubleshoot two 911 calls that got dropped.

That's not all I do - I also support 22 hospitals, have been to every DHHS site in the State of Maine, and used to support Mass Mental Health. Prior to this I was an EMT.

I understand what your saying about the "reasons" these conditions exist. I have a pretty good idea why some of them exist but the world won't change overnight. All change starts from within, so I started by getting me out, then moved on to raising a generation of mini-me's that don't live in public housing. How's that for a start? I took a pretty big cut in pay moving over to PSS from UC. I didn't change employers. I still answer to the same supervisor. I just took a new direction. That was a choice I made.

I take exception to your statement "the only thing that you can think of to do is to get a gun and hope you can draw first". Do you think I live my life hunkered down in a bunker? I don't. And this isn't the wild west, I'm not staring somebody down in the middle of the street waiting for the second hand to strike twelve.... You seem to have a perverted view of gun owners. If you knew me you'd never know I own guns because they're not toys to show off and spin around my finger. You'd only find out I own a gun if you kicked in my door.

 

So, and though it's none of my business, you are not a concealed carry person? I did find it troubling when you included people in poverty on your list of "people who do desperate things" and also that you raised mini-me's that "don't live in public housing".
Do you really thinks its always the people or their parents fault some people are under-employed or in poverty? What makes you think you are immune to poverty or will never need assistance with housing? I'm tempted to accuse you of being a certain type of person when I hear those kind of viewpoints espoused but I'm being reserved today. Watch Fox news much?

 

Ahhh, now we see your true self. I grew up in public housing. We were poor. Food stamps, welfare, the whole thing. So because I grew up poor in public housing you want to accuse me of being a "certain type of person"? And what type of person is that? Does my interracial marriage offend you too?

I'm not going to explain poverty to you. You wouldn't understand. You obviously harbor preconceived notions about the poor. I don't really like where this is going,.

 

Paw

You understand what I’m saying but that is not the same as having understanding. I mean you’re not actually giving answers to the questions of their existence instead giving some vague reply about you thinking you might just have an inclination as to why they exist.

Can you enlighten us as to your thinking?

Yes - usually after seeking understanding and thinking about what is needed to make society better but as I’ve said you don’t seem to be doing that.

Oh you are doing your job and trying to raise your kids but many people do that and for some circumstance can make that easier or harder.

I’m sorry but that is what you seem to be promoting – you have given the reasons why you feel you need for a gun [and imply others should do too], but other than on actual ways to tackle these socio-economic problems you seem rather quiet.

Yet you have a gun because you fear someone might kick down your door.

 

So thats why you said people in poverty do desperate things and are on your list of reasons why you own guns?

I don't know you personally and I couldn't care less about your personal life or marital choices because you see, I'm not a racist.

The type of person that feels they live in a hostile world and gives no one the benefit of the doubt.
When you see a homeless person , do you check your piece? You even work in a fear-based business.
You otherwise seem like a fairly reasonable and articulate fellow.
So, will you answer the question, do you carry a concealed weapon?



Oh and believe me, I have lived my share of poverty. Homeless in the streets and all.

I've hung out with the chronically homeless and their stories left me with a heavy heart. Especially the vets, who returned to a country thats economically, politically and socially betrayed it's promise of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

 

Martin's survival is one possible outcome of his having had a gun. I can think of others.

1. Both men dead.
2. Zimmerman dead, Martin on death row.
3. Martin dead, Zimmerman on death row or perhaps not charged as he was clearly defending himself.
4. Both alive, but one or both missing a limb or in a wheelchair for life.

On the other hand, if neither had a gun, we would most likely have both alive and well apart from a missing a tooth or two.

Recognising that neither list is complete, with the choice of guns or no guns, I know which I would vote for!

320 million Americans make up less than 5% of a world population of 7 billion or so, meaning that, apart from war zones, over 95% of us get along quite well without your second amendment.

There is no such thing as a 'defensive weapon'. Think about it. Am I more or less likely to go after my supremely irritating neighbour if I have a sword AND a shield vs. his sword alone? The function of a shield, kevlar vest. or an Iron Dome is at least as much to facilitate aggression, by providing immunity from retaliation, as it is to provide protection. It negates the protective effect of mutually assured destruction.