ocean dragged my alcoholic neighbor to AA

Yeah, that's what happened to Hank Williams. He was only 29 when he died.

QP

 

I honestly love drinking beer. I do it all the time and have for years.

 

the should have an aggressiveness annonimous to get to the real core of the issue, instead of all the christer cult guilt bullshit.

because an addiction isn't intrinsically a moral issue and morality isn't a belief issue either.

if anything, it is the christothemic perceptious underlying the dominant culture that breed the pressures that lead to alky and other addictions in the first place.

so for aa to be based on the cult that christianity has become is self contradictory and self defeating, and basically just makes no sense.

somebody's already messed up by the same thing and it just messes them up even further with more of the same thing.

the intention is lovely. but i seriously question the sensibility.

what really would make sense, again, is to be honest about the real roots of the problem. and that it is only a problem if people have emotional problems related to it, and for that, they probably need real psychological assistance, not someone else's belief, as a lame substitute for it.

 

I think most of the times when I felt uncomfortable being around drunk people I was sober myself. That being said, I also rather drink a couple of beers than getting drunk or indulging in hard liquor.

Why did you quit pot if you don't mind me asking?

 

Which one? It seems there are at least 3

 

Well if we are going to mention people that died early from being soaks:



\m/ Suh-lay-YAH! \m/

 

I think that evangelical may not be the right word for what you are describing, nor proselytizing.. but I understand what you mean, it's almost near pontificating. The people I've known to adopt the lifestyle and mentality expressed in the AA literature have either become fanatical, or have relapsed and dropped out. I used to attend AA meetings during my initial attempts to get on legal opioid maintenance programs (NA as well) even though I had successfully stopped drinking on my own, and the beliefs and behaviors of many in the group I found to be hypocritical and in many ways resembling a cult, which of course is bound to happen within any group gathering to indulge an ideology.

One example I found to be especially irritating was the belief that one must be entirely sober, which is interpreted as completely drug-free, in order to be considered 'working the program' and the minute somebody discovered that I was on a maintenance program, the way they treated me would dramatically change, and yet a group session which lasts only one hour long needs be interrupted for numerous coffee breaks and for the smoking break, because of course caffeine and nicotine are not 'drugs', right? This of course is not limited to AA and is in fact symptomatic of the schizophrenic thought process of our entire culture but one would assume that people who are brought together solely because of a reliance on chemicals would have a broader view.

Then there is the religious aspect of it, the belief in a higher power 'as we understand it', and the infamous sayings like "My higher power could be a door knob" and the laughable attempt at a philosophical reconciliation contained in the "big book" in order to appease atheists and agnostics. I am somewhat a religious person but this was especially difficult for me to discuss with AA members, because they very often become defensive and closed minded and seem to perceive any alternative analyses of this aspect as argumentative. God forbid I ever made mention of my opinion about psychedelic drugs, something which I am deeply interested in and consider to be responsible for some of the most important and eye-opening lessons learned in my entire life, which is anathema in that world. Despite vast neurochemical research which has shown conclusively that ecstatic religious experiences have a corresponding chemical process in the brain (whether you interpret that to mean that ecstatic states have as an origin a chemical perturbation or not) they also tend to refuse to accept the (again, vast) evidence which shows psychedelic drugs to have the potential to induce states of profound divine revelation; or in other words, to mimic one of the various types of the 'religious experience' necessary to undergo before catharsis and recovery can effectively begin.

There are other issues I have with AA but many of them are caused by the people who made up the specific groups I've attended; I realize that not all groups are so stubborn and brainwashed. In general, I prefer to handle my spiritual growth on my own with the assistance of inspired literature, and I have come to understand that this applies to my substance abuse issues as well. Some people thrive in an environment in which they are applauded and consoled for every attainment and setback, but I have an aversion to it.

 

I totally agree with your post. Another thing I don't like is the "dry drunk" belief system they love to announce. You can be totally sober for 20 years, but if you stop going to meetings, then you're just a dry drunk. Way, way harsh (IMO). And not very rational.

QP

 

The first one.

Beer has a lot of shit in it other than alcohol. Low end tequila is even worse. Mix them together, and you have the perfect recipe for the mother and father of all hangovers. If you really want to know if your body is reacting only to alcohol, you can find out by drinking nothing but mixed drinks with Absolut vodka one night. Absolut is just alcohol and pure water.

At home, I make all my mixed drinks with quality ingredients. With tequila, I never go lower than Cuervo.

If you're averaging more than two standard drinks a day, you could be headed for medical problems. By standard drinks, I mean a 12 ounce beer, a glass of wine, a typical mixed drink with 1.5 ounces of liquor, or a shot glass of the hard stuff straight. A Long Island Iced Tea should count at least double.

Alcohol is going to hit you harder if you don't do the other things you need to do, like moderate exercise and proper nutrition. Hardcore drunks usually neglect everything.

Insightful post.

Drinking is such a complicated subject. So much baggage attached to it. So many stereotypes.

The most fun part time job I ever had was bartending. The place attracted a mostly upscale crowd, so we didn't have fights or loud arguments or sloppy drunks or anything like that. It was mostly just good conversation, a little flirting, and some joking around. I still seek out bars like that one.

 

It is indeed harsh and absolutely absurd; this ties into the 'disease model of addiction' which Pressed Rat brought up. I think a lot of the arguing on this point stems from a misunderstanding of the definition of the word 'disease', in that its proponents necessarily include the association of a fundamental pathological disposition, but the detractors limit it to the ephemeral abnormalities resulting from the introduction of a pathogen. It gets messy because one could point to those physical and psychical withdrawal symptoms, but they are ephemeral and it is only the psychological phenomenon of craving which lingers, at alternating intensities, and this is the point (the association of a condition as having been put into remission, or as having been entirely cured) at which the matter becomes obscured.

 

Sometimes promotion of the support group itself takes precedence over helping individual members in the best way possible. Then you start to question what exactly is the group trying to do. It's a problem that creeps into institutions, even what could be considered very small institutions such as a small support group. It's one of the reasons why some people have such a disdain for anything that becomes institutionalized.

 

great discussion generated! i rarely drink, ususlly only if i don't have pot, smokes, tea, etc.
i used to drink vodka really heavily in my teens but got sick so often, nowadays beer or wine. though when i drink i can drink 3-6 beers depending.
my mom was a raging alcoholic. i try not to be one of those people who can't stsnd drinking alcohol or people who do drink for it. but loud, obnoxious drunks scare me because they remind me of my mom. as for my opinion on AA, i think it may be able to help some people.. like my neighbor. but then again, it's success rate is like %50, just like every other way to try to quit. i also disagree with it's strong connections to Christianity; some atheists get court ordered to go to AA, which is bogus.

 

While I think that AA and other groups are a good support network for those who are wanting to change their addictions, the reality is that no one stops until they are ready to.

I hope that your neighbour does do so for the sake of his own health.