Have people suffered worse than jesus?

Hold back on giving me hell if your christian. This isn't a question im specifically asking to christians. Nor is it in any way meant to offend christians. If your going to take offense to it, or already have, I suggest you click the back button now. Im sorry. Now let me and whoever else engage in discussing this question!

Ok so I remember watching the passion of christ... Im guessing its loosely based on how jesus suffered and died. I feel like ive seen way worse suffering than that! Getting brutally beaten and maimed kills you off quick. Getting nailed to a cross is no good for torture, because you bleed to death plus after some time you become completely disoriented to whats going on, who you are after being in so much shock. To really cause misery you TIE someone to a cross with rope and put them in the hot sun like they did on spartagus. These things only work when you go to hell and cannot die and can be delivered the punishment for a long time.
So in the real world of mortals who have skin, bone, blood and organs. Professional torturers dont really even need to leave a mark on you. Dunk someone in water repeatedly, or close their nose and mouth at the same time. I guess suffocation is the key.
So.. anyone whose been waterboarded probably went thru way worse than what was shown in the passion of christ.
And then theres django... I remember the end of that movie Django was all tied up, and he pretty much thought he was gonna have his balls chopped off. But then he was told that instead of getting castrated he was going to be put on the stone quarry for all his waking hours for the rest of his life, cuz castration would cause him to bleed out/die of infection, plus he needs his balls. Because a man needs to be strong to work the stone quarry.
I think life in the stone quarry like that would be worse than being brutally beaten to death then nailed to a cross and bleeding out all within a few hours.

 

Hi, Everybody. Everybody hurts; great song; life can really be better than death though:if we think of it as such. We can overcome the contradiction for God's existence which is only the one sided view of from here, from within oneself of the unique knowledge of god for the faith that never really makes such out.

Life is bigger than the two of us. It has the Idea for the In itself and the For itself. That means that God is really pushing the World along with His own nationalistic concept of changing things and structures worth having "social conscience" For. But that's all stupid objective idealism. Subjectively I believed that God is personally doing something to me, doing somewhat estranged; never adequate language, but appropriate symbols at least for the common Existenz surpassing in directions: time needed a sequence for the fallen Man that needs to be redeemed for the Pain (expected according to the suffering of Christ?) that right now must be creative before it is too late. That would be the true subjective idealism.:afro::biker::sultan:

 

Crucifixion generally kills through exphyxiation not blood loss

 

I read an article on torture and there was one called weaving on a wheel (i think) it seemed much worse than what jesus went through in that movie. There is no question to me that there are worse forms of torture. Waterboarding dosnt seem as bad to me though. Although it would greatly depend on how long they were doing it for. I would take 15 minutes of waterboarding over jesus' punishment but i dont think i would rather 3 days of it.

 

Dystrophic Epidermolysis Bullosa

 

The ancient Chinese "death of a thousand cuts is a lot worse". Have you ever read about that? It's much worse than you might imagine. They start by cutting out your tongue and gouging out your eyes. Some victims stay alive for days.

The British used to be torture experts too. Entire books have been written about horrible things that went on in the Tower of London.

 

many have, yes.

the point being though, that it would be possible, even not that difficult, for people to live in such a way, as to result in a world, in which no one ever had to seriously suffer at all.

this is the point invariably, if not deliberately missed, by those who would use ANY religious belief as an excuse for fanatacism.

and by that i do not intend the cookbook formula of christianity, nor any other 'holy writ', but rather a universally and unconditionally mutual consideration, not only for all sapience, but as well if not more, for the connectedness of all things.

 

Torture and Torment is always a worse case scenario than Death - wiTch for those who believe "... is only the Beginning" = methinks

 

Jesus's supposed suffering did not last long compared to the years of starvation, or physical and mental abuse that many men, women and children go through today.

Side note:
If I were a christian, I would stop giving money at church until god did something to ease this suffering. That will teach him...hit him where it hurts.

 

Jesus' suffering was nothing special. He was not a snowflake, no matter how much Christians wish he was.

 

not only have and do people suffer worse, but far more importantly, it is all of us together, that are creating the conditions that cause many to do so.

and

it is all of us together, who CAN STOP creating them!

whatever god or gods there might be, this is a thing it or they, HAVE LEFT UP TO US!

(and not by considering ANY belief (nor lack of one) some kind of magic wand that will do it for us)

 

As punishments go, crucifixion was quite excruciating (which is where the term comes from). It was used by the Romans as an instrument of terror because of the prolonged, agonizing death involved. The principal cause of death was usually asphyxiation, but contributing factors were exposure to the elements (Jerusalem got quite hot during the day), dehydration, sepsis from the nails and wounds, etc. The heel of Jehohanan, the only remains we have of a crucified victim in Roman-occupied Jerusalem, show a nail driven through the heel, which would certainly add to the pain. There weren't many kinds of capital punishment that could rival it. The Romans, of course, fed Christians to the lions. Boiling people in oil, burning at the stake, and the tortures depicted in Mel Gibson's Braveheart (disemboweling and drawing and quartering, usually reserved for regicide) were pretty bad, but much quicker. As for water boarding, that's comparing apples and oranges. The U.S. government persistently denied that it was even torture, since it leaves no marks, although it invariably gets results. And people have gone through worse agonies in life than any of these. My brother, for example, died a horrible death from kidney cancer that took over three months, and included starvation and thirst--all while conscious. I can't conceive of anything worse than that. But it wasn't execution. So what 's the point? Are we in a suffering contest? Jesus was crucified--one of thousands to undergo such a horrible death under the Romans. It was a horrible death--in the words of Cicero (who actually saw crucifixions) "a most disgusting punishment"-- and it was the one they chose for Jesus. He suffered severely. He lasted six hours, which is short compared with some victims, who lasted for days. What more do you want? What is the point of your question? Would you like to try it out? Where have you seen more suffering? On tv?

 

This puts me in mind of a joke. Jesus is crucified, and while up on the cross, he calls out for Peter. Peter is in the middle of the crowd who has gathered, and he makes his way toward the cross. A Roman guard stops him and tells him to get back to where he was standing. Peter obeys. After a minute, Jesus calls out for Peter again. Once again Peter breaks from the crowd and makes his way to the cross. The Roman guard stops him and orders him back. But peter is determined to not let his master down, and he pushes forward. This time the Roman guard knocks Peter to the ground and kicks him in the side, breaking two of his ribs, after which a couple more guards drag him back to the crowd. After another minute, Jesus calls out for Peter even louder than before. Peter cannot bear the thought not answering his master's call, so he gets to his feet and, doing his best to fight through the pain, slowly makes his way to the cross. The Roman soldier sees him coming and decides to put a stop to this nonsense once and for all. As Peter is halfway to the cross, the Roman guard picks up a large hunk of wood and swings it with all his might at Peter's legs, breaking one and fracturing the other. A couple of guards grab Peter by his broken leg and drag him back to the crowd. After a couple of minutes, Jesus once again calls out to Peter. Peter hears him and, despite his serious condition, drags himself across the ground toward the cross. This time, however, the guards, being impressed with Peter's undying loyalty and devotion to Jesus, decide to allow him to go to Jesus. Peter makes it to the cross and says, "My Lord, I am here. What is it you wish to tell me?" And Jesus says, "Peter, I can see your house from up here."

I only bring this up to illustrate a popular misconception concerning crucifixions. The person being crucifed was not high off the ground. And in fact, part of the torture involved wild dogs and other animals eating at the legs of the crucified.

 

This is such an odd question I wonder why it was asked. For Christians, other than possibly Mel Gibson, the important point about crucifixion isn't that it was the wost suffering anyone has endured. Scripture never claimed that. Comparisons to death by diseases like cancer or other natural causes miss the point. Jesus didn't just die horribly. Nor was he murdered. He was executed.

According to Jesus scholar John Dominic Crossan, crucifixion was one of a number of horrific modes of execution employed by the Roman Empire to terrorize its subjects. But crucifixion was reserved for two particular kinds of crimes: (1) those who were thought to challenge the authority of the State; and (2) chronically rebellious slaves. The "robbers" or "bandits" who were crucified along with Jesus were surely more than that. Those terms were often used for terrorists or political outlaws. Barabbas, Dismus and Gestas who were slated for crucifixion along with Jesus probably fit that description. So the Romans employed their standard instrument of terror against these political troublemakers. But Christians came to believe that Jesus turned the tables when He arose from the dead--among other things, a triumph of God over the Empire and the domination system it represented--the "principalities and powers". Four centuries later, Christianity became the official religion of the Empire, and not long afterwards began persecuting dissenters itself. Who won that round? But the lapses of some should not let the rest of us become cynical and demoralized. We have the means to see the "normalcy" of the world of power and Realpolitik for what it is, and to be transformed by the enlightened message and example of Jesus and others like him.

 

I had a friend who had "holding your breath" contests with me when i was really little. like who can hold their breath the longest. apparently you can die from that.

 

I've heard several fundamentalist preachers make a big deal out of that point.

 

Exactly. I have heard a few times that Jesus took all the suffering and temptations of the world as his, enduring the suffering and denying himself every last temptation.

 

Well lots of fundamentalist preachers are ignorant blowhards. I agree with Karen J. that the point wasn't that He suffered more than anyone else in history, but that He was crucified at all. Crucifixion was a horrible death, and one which most Jews didn't expect of their Messiah--particularly because it says in Deuteronomy that anyone who hangs from a tree is cursed. Paul's efforts to explain it as atonement, the Paschal lamb, etc., and Mark's analogy to the Suffering Servant of Isaiah made Christianity what it is today.

 

Guru Teg Bahadur, the nineth Guru of the Sikhs was severely tortured and beheaded by Mughal fanatics .

I would say he had suffered more than Jesus . I don't want to go into detail.


However , sages like Guru Teg Bahadur and Jesus, through their martyrdom helped raise the consciousness of humanity by leaps and bounds.

The great joy and bliss of God-consciousness also greatly reduces the physical pain and suffering substantially , so I would say that Jesus and Teg Bahadur had not suffered as much as an ordinary human being would have suffered under such torture.


Continuous focus on torture and suffering, also makes the mind go negative.

Life is but energy which has a choice of going positive or negative.

The focus of Jesus's teachings , imho, was mainly to channel man's mind to a more positive direction.

Check out a wise teaching of Jesus...

HE WHO IS OF A MERRY HEART HAS A CONTINUAL FEAST.


So let us focus on the positives of Jesus's life and his teachings, and overlook the unfortunate negatives that happened owing to the crudeness and barbarity of the world civilization at that point of time,and as a result of which most people were not able to comprehend his sayings and actions.

I am sure Jesus and Guru Teg Bahadur, would want their disciples to focus on the positives of their teachings and actions, rather than the torture part and other crudities. They perhaps even might find it undignified, that people are focussing too much attention on that even now centuries later. Have some consideration for their dignity.

It is almost like a war veteran returning back without a limb or two, and people crowding around him to have a look at the lost limbs for the sake of superficial sensation.