been considering atheism...

absolutly not true man, athiesm goes against the basic scientific princaple 'I dont know' .
Theories like that are not proven in science so much as an attempt is made to disprove them, if you cant they might be true.
to simply discount the posibilty that the universe is aware of itself * or that an intelegnence need inhabit a copareal body is a fanaticle position, and would reguire you ignore your own ignorence.

also there is nothing wrong with wiccans wearing black and sporting pentagrams, some people just got so sick of hiding there making damn sure there noticed. I say rock on with your bad selfs

*although I would serious doubt it would favor stupid little us in anyway at all

 

How would you define something that no one can agree on? Atheism is not a philosophy based on refuting religion, it is a philosophy based on prooving divinity exists, and since no one can proove divinity exists atheists don't belive in divinity. I think it's a rather simple point of view; "if you can't proove to me that something exists than I will not assume it exists until I see proof".
In any logical argument atheism will always win out because you can't have a logical argument about religion since religion is illogical.

 

The scientific principle of "I don't know"? What the hell is that? I think you made that up. If you think you can proove divinity exists please be my guest. Proove it to me. "Mabey" doesn't fit into the scientific method.

Reguarding wiccans wearing black and pentigrams; so what? I wear black and I also wear a pentigram, that is not what I was bitching about. I suggest you go back and read the original post.

 

science is all about maybe, once you "know" there is nothing else to learn.
and I got that from bio 101

 

you know what realy bugs me is these people who think there way is the way, wether they be christians or pagans.
Wiccan does not define a single belief, but is a generic term for a wide variety of beliefs from ancient eurupe

 

he's right. you can't have a scientific method without "maybe". and the whole point of science is that the answers should always lead to more questions. if someone tells you they know all the answers, not only are they not a scientist, they are also lying through their teeth.

agnosticism is more scientific than atheism.

 

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think about it: there's not proof that there isn't a/several god/dess/es, either, especially since people can't agree on the definition of god/dess, with some people seeing god as a separate entitity, some as an immanent state of awareness, some as the physical earth and its processes of life, and some as psychological archetypes, etc.

 

I think that atheism is the ultimate loss of hope. The ultimate loss of mystery, of magic, of possibilities. Atheism seems so...dry, so low, so depressing, so down. And in all truth it really is. I was once an "agnostic" I guess you could say because I didn't deny the existence of any "God", but I just ignored it all together, I wasn't sure.

An atheist must admit that if there is no God, then life itself is ultimately meaningless, and pointless. There is absolutely no way that life can have meaning if we are here just to eat, breathe, fart, sleep and then die. We can create our own so called "purpose" and "meaning" in life but if we don't have true meaning and an eternal goal for the life after this life, then it's meaningless. There's no way to get around it, and many well known atheists and agnostics have already admitted this out in the open. They are able to accept that life is dreary and hopless and depressing...you know, all of that awful stuff.

I can't give you a list right now of atheist quotes but I'm sure I can look it up while you wait lol! I just remember seeing many lectures on the matter but I can't remember their names specifically. There are arguments in every area of thought that go against atheism so maybe you should rethink this? Cosmological, philosophical, moral, scientific, theoretical, all kinds of arguments. Go do a google search (hehe) good luck friend

But if you decide to be an "atheist" I'm not stoppin' ya, it's your choice hun.

 

Of course. I never denied the existance of divinity.

I'm not an atheist you know. I'm a pagan just like you. I'm not here to promote, defend or advocate atheism. I just didn't agree with your arguments as to the deffination of atheism.

 

i understand that. it's just that logically, you need to define something in order to refute it, and there are just too many varied definitions of god/dess to make a sound scientific refusal.

for example, this morning i am a fervent believer that good, strong, double-brewed fair trade organic coffee is god. no one will deny coffee doesn't exist!


mmmm...O Holy Coffee...Coffee the energizer, giver of life! All hail Coffee! (bows before mug)

 

I used to see it that way.
For some, I think that is what it comes down to.
But I think in some cases it is an underlying, unrealized fear and ego. Fear that you'll someday be judged for the nonsense you've done during your life, and ego in that some people can't possibly accept that there is a divine force more powerful than even they can imagine.

But there are plenty who simply have very science-oriented minds and just can't wrap their logic around anything divine. Most atheists are very nice, very smart people. Unfortunately there is a small but extremely belligerent and vocal 'internet atheist' clique who feel it is their mission to pretty much embody all the terrible things they generally blame on religion. Ironic.

 

logic shouldn't be "wrapped around" anything. If you're "wrapping" your logic, it isn't logic, it's rationalization, which is very different. True logic will tell you that something must be defined in order to be denied. "Divine" is such a broad term. Usually the assumption is that by "divine" we are referring to an external, omnipotent, intelligent, entity. However, this is not the view of "god" or "divinity" embraced by many, if not the majority, or spiritual people, regardless of all the noise made by fundamentalists of any faith and "internet athiests" alike. The rejection of the divine assumes a certain limited definition of the sacred, and completely ignores the possibility of divinity outside of those terms. it is by its very nature a mindset based on "not", rather than "is".

I stand by my prievious statement that agnosticism is more logical and scientific than atheism, because it is not based on a negative (by negative I mean opposing or "not" rather than "bad") assumption but is rather open to exploration and possibility, which is what both science and logic are all about.

(I also continue to worship my coffee, at least until I have this intro letter I'm writing finished. Edited to add that I in no way claim to be either logical or scientific, at least in regards to the appreciation of delicious caffeinated beverages.)

 

Granted, this is an old thread (this is for the smart people in the room). To the OP: you are going to find many of the same in the Atheist camp. Your sincere search for Truth is going to lead to a number of dead ends. Stay with it. Count it good that you are gleaning the fair weather folk from that which is real. It is a long journey and requires much diligence and patience. Do not be discouraged (these sound like quotes from the King James Bible, which I like a lot).
As to finding your salvation (more like sanity, in your case - laugh with me) in Atheism... well.. that is up to you. I have found that while true Atheists tend to be knowledgeable and highly tolerant, many that claim the title are simply dissatisfied and often angry ex_________s, God-haters. It shows clearly in their attitudes and speech. Please do not become one of them.
A friend of mine is in the process of becoming a witch in Wicca (if I have it right), and I try to steer him away from doing anything rash in his conversion. I told him to take it slow (this from personal experience).
While this is an old thread, I hope my post is of use to late comers (like me).

cheers mate,

JKHolman

 

i've wavered between atheism and paganism, it's ok, i just roll with it and trust what i actually see.

 

that's a lot of negative assumptions. i make my own meaning and life is beautiful.

 

As unfortunate and sad as it is, Wicca has definitely became a trend setter. There's the 'goths' who flip the pentagram; call themselves wiccan, yet they practice Satanism. There is even 'hipsters' buying their crystals at urban outfitters and popular clothing stores.

Don't let trends baffle what you truly feel though. You don't have to surround yourself with those people and of course it's hard to see them everywhere on the internet - but try to ignore them. If you believe you are a part of the cosmic universe, then call yourself spiritual.

Being spiritual is much less of a modern "stereotype" compared to calling yourself "wiccan". Stereotypes are ridiculous now a days and are thrown around like candy. Be true to you, don't let others cloud your path and existence :daisy: