The Double Standard for men and women.

This was the part I agreed with. What I objected to was that you said I played the victim card.

 

think of it like this.

Men have exponentially higher testosterone and are more willing to have sex with many woman so they can plant their seed as much as they can; so if a man has sex with a thosand woman it's seen as an evolutionary accomplishment.

A woman wants a man that she can trust when she carries the child, and since a man can impregnate like 30 woman a day but a woman takes 9 months to give birth to one child it would make sense why they don't constantly have a similar sex drive.

So if a woman has sex with a bunch of men it's looked upon something that shouldn't happen and disloyal to child the man tried to seed. It's super easy for a guy to impregnate a woman, but it's back breaking torture for the woman to carry that child.

But with that said is that double standard socially acceptable? I'd certainly think not, but we shouldn't judge it so quickly. If a man banged a bunch of girls I would see him more like a tool and same goes for the girl. I can't help but want to fuck a girl sometimes, but I let my girl take care of that urge and trust me...i'd choose that lady over 1000 goddesses any day

 

Okay, looks like we disagree for a 2nd time happily, because this post really angered me.

And technically legally it was rape, it's just in Mocha's case her legal team must not have had enough physical evidence to prove her case, and since people are "innocent until proven guilty" combined with the fact that you can't be charged with the same crime twice (double-jeopardy), rapists get away with their crimes.


---

Question to the mods: when you are banned from here, are you also banned from private messaging? I have a few things to say to happily but I am unsure if she'll get them now.

 

Yeah no, I take personal offense to this because I had an ex-girlfriend whose ex-boyfriend raped her when he was in her bedroom. She let him in because she just wanted to cuddle with him and fall asleep (something I'm assuming was Mocha's intent as well)

I also have another friend (a girl), whose male childhood friend, since both were toddlers, raped her when they were both 17-18 respectively when she went to visit him at his house one day.

In both cases, until that time the rapists, was really close-knit in the social circles of both women.

So I am quite surprised at this "Real rape victims" stance of argument you've taken happily, and I thought you were more knowledgeable about social psychology than this.

Okay I see where your line of argument is coming from now, and I see some coherency of what you are trying to say now.

I partially agree on the point about verbal communication being clear and concise and not jokingly sarcastic, which dilutes the meaning behind the words uttered.

^After what I witnessed here in this forum, I'll believe it.

Did you parents ever run a back round check on him? (DNA sample, driver's license check the works)

I'm not criticizing you or anything I'm just saying to what level was this guy's conmanship?

 

Actually, in NYC, where I was from at the time, most 19 year-olds don't have driver's licenses because they neither need to drive, nor can afford to. Interesting local oddity. But no, he wasn't asked for ID. He was friendly and likeable, quiet and unassuming, small and cute. He was relatively immature, and eager to impress. He looked younger than I did, and acted it too. There was no background check, but since he wasn't from my school and none of my friends knew him, he was only allowed supervised contact with me for a little over two months, when my mother agreed to let me go for a walk with him. A week or two after that, she let me go with him to the mall to see a movie. My mother granted her trust of the situation based purely on observation. Do many parents run background checks on their kids' dates?

Thank you for sharing my outrage. I think those posts were really inappropriate.

 

Thank you monkjr. I had to take myself away from responding to much of that. It's just ignorance to the nth degree. Most rapists are trusted, especially in the case of a child.

Consent isn't about how loudly or repeatedly you say "no", nor is it about how violent the rape is or how hard you fight.

It is very common to rape counselors that being pressured into having sex, if there is real pressure, which there was, is rape. It's very common that rape victims make decisions out of shock and fear, during and after the rape. It's not uncommon.

 

I had a girlfriend who was forcibly raped.. as in beaten up and held down. The guy went to prison. She had a brick wall up, was always pushing me away then coming back. She didn't even tell me about it until months into the relationship, at which point was extremely upsetting to hear about. Then she broke up with me when he was getting out, because she was afraid I'd find out who it was and come after him. I felt and still feel horrible for her.

I've also had friends that were accused of rape because of things like having sex then blowing her off.

As for the original question, the reason for the double standard is biological and mechanical. Biologically men are supposed to spread their genetics as much as possible, that's why most of us are called 'dogs'. Women are supposed to be selective about their mates, and hold out for the strongest genes. That's why beta males complain about not being able to get laid, even in this era.

Mechanically, the woman is being penetrated. Symbolically there is more there on her part than the man just sticking his dick in her.

I'm no slut shamer but I realize the biological and gender differences at play here. People should do what makes them happy, but would I want to impregnate and/or marry a chick that's indiscriminately banged shit tons of guys, or a prostitute? Not very likely.

On the flip, I also wouldn't want to marry a woman with a bunch of hang ups or inhibitions, and little experience. I'd take a slut over that anyday, because at least I know they like sex.

 

Wow sounds like you've seen a lot of what this world has to offer by association.

Ya know it just sucks, and while I dislike what happily said, I have to say I am also upset she's banned because I would very much like to have had a dialogue with her and debate her on this, she had some valid points, but she overstepped her bounds when she made a personal attack or criticism of someone here rather than staying objective about the topic at hand without regard to how her words might offend us given our personal experiences about ourselves and those we know/knew.

What was offensive was the implication that her understanding of rape, had to be verbally strongly with a "no" (somewhat understandable), but then to imply that there has to be physical evidence (like a struggle to resist) the rape is where it gets offensive. Because you aren't going to see evidence of a struggle necessarily, if drugs or alcohol is involved because some disable the body's nervous system. I also doubt, if happily, knows that lots of acts of rape themselves, can be quite gentle and quite physically orgasmic, but that the trauma comes from the violation of you not wanting it to happen. (the ability to orgasm is very much like the auto-response of being tickled against your will; you'll feel it, you might laugh and it might feel good, but you want it to stop and you have no control to make the person tickling/raping you stop)

---

I would also like to add that it's mechanical, biological, AND CULTURAL.

I mean look at other human societies who have the same anatomy, but completely different view of how to teach the concept of sexuality and reproduction, and relationships to their people. Therefore they'll marry younger, both genders might have several partners, and things are JUST FINE because that society sees it as normal....therefore no judgment and there's no psychological trauma, at least not in the way we see it here in the western, more developed world.

Deviate how did you react to learning about your ex's rapist getting out from prison? I have to say from my own experience having a girlfriend who reacts this way and has emotional walls all the time really sucks, because it's like what she went through still poisons the relationship you have with her in the present. I also have noticed that women tend to be even kind to their rapists sometimes, like not wanting you or someone else to end their life. A lot of the time, I think men feel much more comfortable with the notion of murdering someone else because psychologically we're primed to eliminate threats and competition. That's why you see violent crime is very much usually indicative of a male suspect rather than a female suspect when you study criminology and justice.

 

Rape is so much like domestic abuse. It sucks when it's physical, but psychological abuse or less violent forms of rape, are still rape, still violent, still painful, confusing and traumatic. I've been in both places.

monkjr. you may not have seen it but happily has several, several times on this site went out and attacked women. "she" likes to put herself against other women and constantly makes personal attacks in order to get attention from men. It's easy to see that "she" will find some man's post in a thread and run with it in order to make herself look good to other men, while competing and attacking other women. My guess is she was banned because this is happening constantly with her. I've never seen anyone else get on this website and pick constant fights with women besides kokujin.

I really didn't know there were still women in the world who were so afraid, competitive and jealous of other women...especially outside of high school. But I think it is all related to rape culture. There are women who are more harsh on other women and even teenage girls about their personal choices, I think these women have extreme insecurities that makes them ashamed of their own gender, they think that women are inferior and therefore their identity is in being acceptable to other men, by putting women down.

 

yes, it's very common for women to feel they were at fault, when they clearly were not...partially because of the societal beliefs that anything sexual that happens to a women was brought on by her...even as teenagers.

It's very common to feel sad and sorry for your rapist and to want to protect that person to a certain extent...especially in the beginning, immediately after it happened. I think it's self-preservation in a sense...that person has become (if you want to put it biblically) a part of you... that person has experienced a part of you that few have regardless of how unwanted it was. It's common to be confused about what happened. It's shocking.

 

This is kind of an antiquated way of thinking. No matter what gender you are, everyone is going to think that your actions are what define you. Labeling people "sluts" or "studs" is archaic and over-simplifying of the human condition. As long as you carry yourself with dignity and have enough self-respect, it shouldn't matter what other people think of you.

 

Can you expound on the first sentence? I'm not quite sure if I am following what you are saying there.

And I agree, it's a shame when someone who has well formed opinions and provides thought provoking commentary to the site is no longer allowed to post. I didn't realize everyone was so sensitive these days that they can't handle a strong opposing viewpoint on a free speech forum. But I don't want to get into that.

I believe part of it is cultural but mostly it's biological and mechanical. There are more cultures that try to repress women's sexuality than accept what we are discussing here, in fact I don't even know of any societies like you described. But I'm sure they exist.

And to answer your question, my initial reaction was that I cried. Which isn't something I do often.. actually I basically never cry. It was just really upsetting since I already cared about her a lot when I found out. Then I wanted to kill him. Which I wouldn't have done, I'm not an idiot and life in prison doesn't sound fun. But I would have made him bleed if we were still together and, say, in a bar when he walked in. I'd know it was him based on her body language and she knew that. So I think she broke up with me trying to protect me. The whole thing was just sad and unfortunate. The fact she was raped and then the after effects on her life (and those in her life).

 

But isn't that a catch 22? If you can't define someone by their actions, choice, and behavior what can you judge them by?

I agree with your notion of "over-simplifying the human condition", that is obvious on a broad scale that transcends the sub-forum of love and sex and relationships.

Huh, I guess I wasn't really aware of this. To me, I just thought she was very opinionated by nature, and you encounter people like that in real life so I didn't really have a problem with it.

But I will acknowledge I might not have noticed this because I don't take a lot of things people say on the internet personally, if I did I wouldn't be on these forums. I'm very good at feeling an emotion and then compartmentalizing it, not in the sense that I'm in denial about it, but just so that I don't go into a "fit of passion", which is to me a state of mind when one's emotions overtakes rational, dialogue and a state of calm, and what one person says or does has become more about them venting emotionally rather than an objective learning discussion.

----

@Deviate

Yeah that was my same reaction too, I cried as well because you feel powerless right? But then I was also really mad at the rapist, because his actions caused ripple effects into what MY relationship (because of what you could called after affects) at no fault of my own, which is something I don't control, and the fact that he influences it from the past is well infuriating. (I think it's a male thing)

Hypothetically speaking, the act of removing someone from the world like a rapist, must feel cathartic and cleansing and sometimes fantasizing about it is enough to get it out of your system, so you don't end up doing it in real life. But you know if I die, I have a huge debate to have with God about the notion of "Does a human have the right to take another human's life?" Sometimes I think the Old Testament says yes to that, and that it's society that's invented the politically correct answer to "no".

It does suck that gravitas of the crime of rape is not measured the same as murder. In that sense the Bible was much more consistent, on meeting both crimes with the punishment of death. (Leviticus)

I am also in agreement with you on the trend of banning people who seem to be conversationalists but just really opinionated as of late. It's better than all those one time posters asking about penis size anyway, at least these conversations and debates go somewhere interesting.

But anyway, what I meant about that first sentence, was that through somebody you knew (your ex and your friends who might've had the rape accusations unjustified thrown at them) you've seen both sides of the debate that got pretty heated. You've seen both sides of what this world's social dynamics give humanity, that's rare in my subjective opinion, because most people don't take the effort to step out of their shoes, they form opinions and stick to them, without knowing how to preserve opinions but still challenge their own POV.

 

Hi monkjr. You don't have to take something personally, in order to see when someone is trying to provoke a hyper-personal response in you.

Especially if you've shared something very personal, like the fact that you've been raped.

 

Edit: never mind. It's not even worth discussing.

 

-Happily has a problem with ignoring facts.
-Mocha says she was forced and said no.
-Happily says "well rape has to be forced. ya have to say no"
-Mocha says I DID say no. it was forced entry. (and then the discussion on the impact fear has on compliance)
-Happily repeats her same ol argument, ignoring what was just said


After my cousin was put in prison for molestation I remember feeling bad that he was convicted because since he was an older family member, I wasn't fighting and screaming and no. I was old enough to know what was going on was wrong, but I was scared to stop him. And then I didn't want him in prison because I hadn't put up that fight. Because of that shitty mentality people you have happily. Do you also think that women wearing skirts deserve to be raped?

 

Can you clarify what you mean by this? Over text, I have a hard time understanding what you're communicating to me, it seems or reads like an oxymoron.

Sure, I guess to a point, but it's a very fine line responding to someone who has come at you criticizing a personal experience you share.

I can't speak for anybody else, but when I do go the extra mile of sharing a personal experience and someone challenges it (happens a lot to me in the politics forums) I brace for politically incorrect responses, and if I respond I'll engage that person to pick their brain to see the foundation of their challenge.

I can't take it or shelter myself from people who believe in opposing viewpoints, if you feel offended you haven't transcended the experience aforementioned. My view, is that when you throw yourselves to those who would rip you apart and survive, it's kind of a stage of healing to whatever trauma you experienced, it's real world.

She was definitely out of line here, and she jumped to a LOT of conclusions about Mocha which was very unfair. I'm not defending here her, but I am weighing how she reacted here with what she's provided other threads, and for some other people, she did give cogent feedback that served someone's benefit.

Problem is when you get banned here you get banned from every forum, and from PM's. I just think it might be an over correction, especially since individuals have the ignore button right?

Agreed, and you know it's that same mentality, that "girls/women are too tempting to men to the point they can't control themselves" is a huge part of the foundation for why the Islamic world/religion, has women wearing veils and head scarfs. The notion was that if women covered up, men would be less tempted to go all animal on them.

But if one were to apply the scientific method to that hypothesis of social policy to outcome, one would conclude the hypothesis failed because women with veils and head scarfs still get raped, it's just not reported.

The new conclusion: It's not the human female's fault she is a victim of rape.

---

Also and while we're on the subject, this also applies to the bigger political intersecting topic about rape rampant in the USA's Military in almost all branches. No justice for a lot of people BOTH male and female there.

---

As a sidenote topic: I always wonder why natural selection gave humanity (specifically women) the short end of the stick when it comes to reproduction. A woman can have babies forced upon her, whereas other females in other species like animals have more complex ability to mate with multiple males and have options like:

1. choosing male #1 or male #2's ejaculate to be the one to reach her eggs

2. to kinda wall off the male's sperm to her eggs, effectively serving like natural birth control for that species.

---

I have a larger question that probably nobody here can answer and that is:

What freaking role, did the act of rape play into the development of modern humans that it persists in our society now?

I think a few other primates can also have that question asked of their species as well...

Does anybody know? Because this question leads to the next one, is the behavior/act of rape natural or artificial?

 

Well, in all fairness because I happen to like all of you. You were all being bitches to each other constantly. Her and mocha were beefin about something, I saw them going back and forth in different threads.

I'm not saying Mocha wasn't raped, or wasn't violated because the only people that know that are her and that guy.

But here's another rape story. I had a girlfriend (god I sound like a manwhore) back in the day who went off to college 2 hours away. We got in a fight one day, and I was like 'fuck her!' then felt bad, missed her and had to see her. Got some flowers and drove to her college. Some of the girls let me in her dorm because they knew me and were doing the aww so cute shit about the flowers. Knock on her door and I hear 'hang on'.. 'ok come in'

I guess she thought I was her roommate. Now in retrospect I shouldn't have surprised her like that at all, but I was young and stupid. So I walk in and she's laying in bed with some dude.

I drop the flowers and just said what the fuck. She starts saying how she's so drunk. The guys like I better leave. So I said yeah you better leave before I hurt you. Then ended up throwing him out in the hall naked, punching the wall and breaking my hand, calling her a whore, the whole 9. It was a fucked up day.

Anyway the next day she drove up to where I lived and found me in a drunken stupor, we fucked (which by the way I didn't want to do, and kept saying no don't come here, no) and so ended up trying to make it work. She kept saying he raped her and she had said no. So I said, ok, report it then. She wouldn't.

When I walked in the room they were laying together and she had her leg over his. Come the fuck on.

The rape card definitely does get thrown around a lot.

 

Agreed. We are all bitches haha. However, we never had such frequent problems until happily appeared on the site.

And yes, the rape card does get pulled a lot. There are a lot of women that are ashamed or what they did consent to, or are trying to pull one over on their boyfriend who caught them. very unfortunate.

 

Right, it's a freaking grey area. And the rape card does get misused because sometimes girls don't want to face the wrath which is the consequence of cheating.

^That I think was happily's main point but she went off on a drastically inappropriate tangent.

This has happened a LOT to a few of my guy friends, brawls ensued between two or more guys, it's bad.

What can I say other than alcohol complicates things both legally and casually like in your case where the law didn't get involved.

To be honest I would've made the guy sit down, instead of letting him leave but that's just me.