What happens when you scrap the welfare state

RIP please we’d love to help you to help yourself, I mean it’s sad seeing you flounder like this day after day.

 

Just askin , are overweight , balbus? Sexually dysfuctional , perhaps? Just trying to figure out why you are terminally irate. LOL.

 

RIP

It’s that kind of reply that makes you so much either a figure of fun or one of pity.

You only need to start opening you mind and begin to learn and things could be so much better for you.

 

Something must be lacking. Why do you seek controlling postees and individual liberties on a chat board? Your desire to be critical of others and their opinions could possibily linked to ED. Don't you think? Could I suggest increasing your vitamin B & D intake with moderate amounts of zinc.

 

I’d really like to help you, to me its painful to see such ignorance but if you don’t want help and don’t want to contribute you must just be trolling?

 

Define ruling class.

 

Those who use wealth and power to exercise control over society.

 

I don't think that fascism is the end goal here, but I would agree that a welfare state can lead to dependency. At the same time, a government could regulate to provide more opportunities for people to contribute. The solution isn't to just throw money at these people and pay them not to become criminals, the solution is to devise programs by which these people can rise out of their current situations.

The biggest obstacle as I see it right now is that education is too expensive. Education is vital for social mobility, because since manufacturing moved overseas it's almost impossible to get a decent job without an expensive degree. If you make it economically impossible for people to better themselves, then they're going to stagnate. Integrating welfare with education is the way to go... give the poor an opportunity to develop skills that will help them contribute and get rich, and I highly doubt that they wouldn't take it.

And I don't think that corporations always need the government in order to dominate the economy, or that monopolies are always a bad thing. It's only bad when there are all kinds of tax breaks and incentives being doled in combination with lax regulations and a full-out assault on unionized labor. If a monopoly is paying people the proper wages, giving back to society, environmentally sound and charging a reasonable price for its goods, then it isn't a bad thing. All of this can be achieved via regulation, and would probably better than a lot of half-assed attempts that destroy the environment and charge higher prices because they don't have the means, information or vision to operate efficiently.

 

Oh, I can agree with you on that. However, I'm content with most of what the Democratic Party is and stands for. I did support Occupy Wall Street, taking them food, even demonstrating outside a bank with them. So, I know the D Party is lacking in ways. However, I wont support a third party which just tilts an election in the opposite direction that its supporters wish for. I won't become an anarchist or Marxist. I respect those of those persuasions, while I like debating against them.

 

Eleven you seem to have missed this or are you ignoring it?

Please define what you mean by ‘left’?

That doesn’t fit with the evidence of large scale industrial disputes and mass labour movements - and why right wing organisations and governments targeted such unions for attack including the torture and assassination of union leaders – here is one example amongst hundreds (if not thousands).

“At the height of the movement, workers at the largest Coca-Cola plant in Guatemala City formed a union to press the management for pay raises; they also organized a series of strikes. During the strikes, many of the laborers were severely beaten by the Ambulant Military Police and union leaders were assassinated. In February 1977, two union members were machine gunned to death directly outside of the Coca-Cola plant, after allegedly receiving death threats from the Coca-Cola company's American manager, John C. Trotter” Wiki

Folks exiting the factory gates were literally paying with their lives.

Why would you have no concern or empathy for those that suffer because of Islamic extremism or any other form of extremism?

 

Now talking about business just around town, in the poorer districts. They dig it, and the greedier the better for fostering good will and moral standards. It is good willed to be a two timer and talk critically about the failure to find the conveniences anyone needs to the Muslims.

Does that mean good will is a hypocritical matter for the progressive state of "their" money? Now it only applies to Matter, not ethical substance.:freezing::sunny:

 

Look at who's posting OPINION as FACT now...

Btw, their economy is stronger. You're just putting out the "Dark side," when this is only one cut, in a series that should take place in the USA...

"What does the 'book' tell us? Everything that should be up is up: economic growth (now 3 per cent a year), consumption, investment, retail sales, farm income. What should be down is down: inflation (to 1.4 per cent) and unemployment (just above 9 per cent). Even the traces left by a long recession - the second-hand shops and the old Datsun Sunnys and Morris Minors - seem to give the place a jaunty retro air. Everywhere, however, there are signs of a darker side to this change. You notice an old man whizzing along the footpath on an electric cart, braking at each litter bin to go through the contents. You read a furious media debate about a Methodist minister who says the theft of food can be condoned when a family is starving. (The fact that children are going hungry at all, in a country whose export wharves are groaning with butter, cheese, wine, apples and lamb, seems not to be an issue.)"

You're only looking at the bad, and not all the good it is doing for the economy.

So, let me address the "bad" parts.

People are homeless, digging through dumpsters- you don't think that happens in America? We have tons of homeless individuals, who would take a half eaten sandwhich, if offered. Foodstamps doesn't keep people in their homes, they need to pay rent on their own, and they're not liable for foodstamps, without an address.

Secondly "violent crimes are up," and "there's more people in prison." If someone would rather rob a store, than get a job, they are lazy to begin with. They stopped being able to STEAL from the taxpayer, so they find other places to steal from. This guy is insinuating we should bribe the poor not to commit crimes. Besides, America already has the most overcrowded prisons in the WORLD. And most people lock up, are in for victimless drug crimes. If we abolished the drug war, maybe we could fit the violent criminals.


Moreover, the article admits poor people are still getting food.

"Typical of those who rely on the food banks is Averil Pairima, who lives in Wellington with her unemployed husband and five children. The local food bank is about 30 minutes' walk from their old weatherboard cottage. Before collecting their allocation, claimants have to be interviewed and their needs assessed, so there is a two-hour queue. 'We couldn't survive without it,' she says. 'The food's OK. There's baked beans - a lot of baked beans. Dried pasta. Flour. You might get a kilo of cheese. Bread the bakeries have given away. Marmite, honey, tea, sugar . . ."

These people are NOT starving, and they have help. There's TONS of charities in the US. Churches give out food weekly, and so do other charities. Not only that, but I see Veterans and homeless people making a bunch of money in the south, people give to those in need. It is an issue of morality, not FORCING people to pay for someone else, but asking for their help, and helping someone you know is in need.

I also want to point out that they are still doing "social security" another utter waste of money, and they probably only cut welfare, and not other wasteful spending.

As I've said, Welfare is about the last thing I'd cut (cause the government has impoverished alot of people with manipulation of the stock market.) But, yes, eventually I'd like to see it go, and for people to live a voluntary existence.

A lot of racism in American, and a lot of what keeps the poor down, is our unfair drug laws. Blacks are arrested twice as much as whites for drugs, even though we use drugs the same amount.Welfare keeps people dependent, and doesn't offer a way up the ladder. Sure, there are some who only use it momentarily between jobs, but there's many who abuse Government Insurance to get their drugs, and taxpayer money for food.


The amount that we can spend without collapsing is finite. We are 17 trillion dollars in debt, and it just keeps raising.




We NEED to cut spending if we want our country back on track, and it's not happening that way. In fact, Liberals just want to expand the government, add taxes and, create new expensive programs. This is bound to have the opposite effect on the economy (which is already in shambles.)

I can think of better things to cut than welfare, any day of the week. I would start with cutting military funding, the CIA (they're very corrupt,) ObamaCare, DHS and, the NSA. This is just some things, which would make a huge positive impact on the economy and job growth.

Instead, Obama only cuts from expected increases, and our taxes are constantly going up. (Not to mention inflation.)

Many Liberals think government is an endless pool of money. But it's fake money, based on debt and assets. We're going to overspend ourselves and go bankrupt, but both Republicans and Democrats are making too much cash to care. This hurts the everyday American.

What's going to happen when a silver dollar reaches 100$? (it's at 25 dollars now, I've seen people pay 30$+) When it reaches 100$, that will mean a dollar is virtually 1/100th of a silver ounce (practically worthless.) At that point, prices will be off the wall for anything.

This country has been going in the wrong direction for a very long time. The biggest Banks control the Federal Reserve, and the government. Fraggle doesn't seem to care much about America, our economy or, our Bill of Rights. He seems to only care about stealing more from hard-working individuals.

I can't believe people still thinks Obama cares about the poor, when..

"Corporate tax loopholes — every one — remain safe. Tax breaks for the wealthy are protected."

He doesn't care about us anymore than Bush, and over-taxation is the cause of the biggest transfer of wealth. Why do you think the top 1% overwhelmingly supported Obama? More taxes may not effect them, but it effects individuals working 40+ hours a week, and I know this, cause I was paying 150$ a week toward government, and I could barely afford my own damn food!!

 

Definitely Yosemite Sam.

 

Opinion as fact. That is the sociological Plato. The warrior, offering the drink of water, must be me.

 

He's still mad because I noticed that he was posting an article blatantly marked 'opinion' as if it proved something.

And now he's trying to pretend that an article marked 'news' is the same thing.

He's also pretending that the US economy hasn't recovered and been on a roll lately... I guess my investments aren't way way up then, and the bank has made some sort of mistake? I guess that the Wall Street Journal is lying? And all of that debt definitely isn't keeping the investors away... it's almost as if people trust that the US economy has recovered completely. We're in a slight pullback this week, but only because prices were so high that nobody could afford to buy anymore.

On the other hand, the article has shown us that a stronger economy doesn't really do you a lot of good if you're being willfully excluded from it... and as far as I can tell, this is why so many people are still feeling pretty shitty about their lives. But hey, when the people revolt at least the rich will be able to afford recruiting the stronger among them as their personal bodyguards.

And anyone who argues that people commit crimes because they're lazy and don't want to get a job has to be a troll. There's simply no way that anyone could possibly think that.

 

I don't care. He must be John Kerry being concerned about military spending. But I have the coincidence meter running hard over my dirty laundry budget; Merry Xmas.

 

Actually, it's quite the same thing. This is an OPINION article, even if it doesn't say it. And moreover, the only stats it did give, were in favor of cutting government spending.

The opinion article I posted, also displayed facts in favor of capitalism. This is an opinion article, but you're trying to act like it's absolute fact and everyone has to believe it.

Ha! It hasn't even gotten close to recovery. You don't even live in America, yet, you spew out this jargon like you think you know everything. You're basing the whole US economy on some stocks and 1 "news" article?

The only article I've even seen that say the economy MIGHT be getting better, is TIME magazine that based it off of this last November. (Hmm a month away from christmas, and the month of black friday) *sarcasm* I'm sure it has nothing to do with the holidays.

The economy isn't improving, and that's visible everywhere
"The U.S. economy, the world’s largest, has not recovered fully from the 2008 financial crisis and ensuing recession. Under Democratic President Barack Obama, the federal system of government, designed to reserve significant powers to the state and local levels, has been strained by the national government’s rapid expansion. Spending at the national level rose to over 25 percent of GDP in 2010, and gross public debt surpassed 100 percent of GDP in 2011. A 2010 health care bill greatly expanded the central government’s regulatory role, and the Dodd–Frank financial overhaul bill roiled credit markets. The election of a Republican Party majority in the House of Representatives in late 2010 slowed spending growth, but the divided government that has left economic policy in flux seemed likely to continue following the reelection of President Obama in 2012."

You must watch extremely biased news as means of keeping your false perceptions alive. Our dollar is next to worthless! A Dollar today is equal to .04 cents when the dollar was issued. If we were still on a silver currency, a gallon of gas would cost a DIME.

And, I don't think you really went into the cost of things. There is an extra tax on coffee and, simple household items.

I feel the same way. Why would someone pay into a system, they get literally nothing for? It's the middle class doing that, NOT the poor. They're not "excluded," they get 'free' money, and don't even pay into the pot. It is the people who work all the time that are paying insane amounts to a government, which doesn't benefit them at all.

The poor will never Revolt. Why would they? They are content receiving government help, and dependent on Government help. If anyone was gonna revolt, it would be citizens like me who sees the government perpetually take our Rights away, in favor of an economic structure that ONLY benefits the very rich, or very poor. Working class, middle Class and Homeless people can't get on foodstamps. So, it doesn't help people who may really need it.

As far as "people feeling shitty about their lives" the government isn't going to stop that! Again, you people think government is an endless pool of money, and it only hurts the middle class.

It's naive to believe it's ONLY Republican ideas that have gotten us here. It was BOTH parties, spending Liberally.

And as far as the Rich goes, you act like my policies help them. These are sentiments you've ASSUMED, with no evidence to back it. As a matter of fact, Obama received campaign contributions from the 1% and, so did Romney. Libertarians arent bribed by the 1%, because not having government benefits would hurt the most corrupt industries out there.

This is coming from the person who said "I'd pick foodstamps over working at Mc Donalds any day."

Why do people commit crimes then, brainiac? You think every thief and drug dealer can't get a real job? Please! They commit crimes cause they're lazy, and don't WANT to get a job.


If one works for a living, they deserve the money they worked for. Liberals like you automatically assume less taxes is better for the rich only. Whereas, 600$ a month would be a HUGE benefit to those middle class families, struggling just to get by today.

Moreover, you act like government should take care of everyone from cradle to grave. Never in history has their even been a middle class, and if Liberals like you get their way, there wont be a middle class at all.

http://www.heritage.org/index/country/unitedstates


All the money Liberals want to spend, isnt theirs to spend. It's easy to spend money that's not yours, isnt it?


Liberals want to spend MORE, create more wasteful programs and, raise taxes. This runs contrary, both to economic growth, and the principles of our country.

Everythin going on today, like: unreasonable searches, killing ppl with no due process, overtaxing and, taking guns away, is PRECISELY why America seperated from the Brittish Government.

You Obviously don't care about the Constitution, or this country! You're one of those people who think Americans should hand over their freedom, in return for a false sense of government security. The US government is the biggest terrorists on the planet, and yes, you do support that violence, no matter how you try to divert the topic.

You think it's fine Obama kills citizens, you think it's fine that he infringes on our Constitution and, you actually have the gull to say Obama's "not so bad." When in reality, he's an utter nightmare with regards to the freedoms Americans hold dear.

This is why I act like every Obama supporter is brainwashed. (Cause they are)

Yeah, it's "not so bad" to kill teenagers, make unconstitutional regime changes, lie repeatedly, keep innocent people locked up in Gitmo, legalize war propaganda, restrict protests and, allow the torcher, arrest and prosecution of an individual who did nothing but expose America's war crimes.

I really can't believe that people actually think THAT.

Btw, I'm not "mad" about anything, I think it's funny that you can't defend these, very many criticisms, leveraged against you. Which proves my point that Liberals are hypocrites who say one thing and do another. (especially Obama Liberals.)


They want to "tax more,"but pretend to care for the working class.

They hate "evil corporations," but not the one's behind ObamaCare.

They want to take guns away, but not from Cops, Soldiers, DHS, Social Security or, Mexican drug cartels.

You're so wrapped up in the political jargon, you're totally detached to the reality around you. President Obama is acting like a Dictator, and ignorant people still blindly support him just because he's black, and has good rhetoric. But seriously, 5 years later; it's time to wake up already!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7fvpjkxEVs"]WATCH Obama Lie 36 Times About Keeping Your Insurance - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDDbTaWpwoc"]Obama Lies Compilation - WAKE UP YOU SHEEPLE! - YouTube

I think you know the truth, but one way or another, it doesn't fit your agenda. That's why you're ignoring the truth or saying "it's not so bad," but, what if it were YOUR rights being taken from you?? You think it's a fair exchange- insane taxes and welfare in exchange for our freedom?

People will not take that lying down. A lot of individuals like me receive NO government help, so we're losing our freedom and hard-earned money for NOTHING. For con artists to steal and distribute our money. Liberals also want to expand this extravagant existence of government, into nearly every aspect of our lives. When it's obvious that government makes prices go up, spends too much and, returns hardly anything. But I wouldn't expect a non-American to care about freedom- If you did, you'd be fighting your own government, not trying to make America miserable too. Our government is NOT above the people or the law.

But, carry on lying to yourself and other members here. In the end, what I said from the start was true- you're a violence sympathizer who is willing to use/ignore excessive force as long as it is pushing YOUR will. Which really, makes you no better than any brainwashed republican, and it makes Obama no better than Bush. (maybe even worse than Bush.)

But you supporting a war monger, is no skin off my nutts! It's evident you don't care about the truth, only perception. You haven't even looked into ANY of the Unconsitutional laws I posted on, even when I gave you videos. You can just type up "NDAA," NDRP, CISPA, HR347 or, the FAA reauthorization act, but you didn't-- and I know exactly why now; It doesn't fit your narrative that Obama's "not so bad."

Btw, the only reason you even mentioned Yosemite Sam, is because you know NOTHING about American politics, and you just assume everyone who doesn't want a government that can do wtvr the fuck it wants, is automatically some dumb redneck.

That's fine, that's fair- but, this is how I see you..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6J4QBmdi-c"]The logic of STILL supporting Obama - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XNM2Vu7Njw"]Obama supporters say the darndest things - YouTube

 

EXACTLY! You didn't even have TIME to read the post, so I rest my case!

You're just a Liberal hypocrite, who doesn't WANT to look into the truth!

Again, you've been exposed as the ignorant Leftist you are. You can't even defend your views, or have a conversation with those who have different views. You support government being above the Constitution, taking our hard earned money and stepping all over our Human Rights; and for what? government "security," lies, manipulation and, theft.

You're by far the most ignorant person I've ever met. But frankly, idc, because this only exposes you and your liberal buddies as the closed-minded bias hypocrites you are!!!

Straight up dude,

 

Well, at least you're polite. That's always nice.