Anyone else really actively oppose circumcision?

i don't know why the cleanliness thing keeps getting brought up, it's really not hard to clean. i assume most of you clean your dicks anyway, and cleaning a dick with a foreskin is not any different, you just pull the foreskin back before washing. it's a non-issue.

 

there's not really any sources for this info that i just read here

http://www.thelaboroflove.com/articles/why-should-i-circumcise-my-child

seems obviously biased, but here it is:

"Circumcised newborns have a lower chance of developing Urinary Tract Infections (UTIs), which can occur up to 10 times as much in uncircumcised newborns, in addition to having less urological problems in general. Because UTIs can be traumatic on newborns, complications can lead to kidney failure, meningitis and bone marrow infection, all of which can be fatal in some cases. Other medical reasons have a much longer shelf life, with circumcision making men less vulnerable to penile cancer, thrush, and STDs, including HIV, syphilis, and gonorrhea. The rate at which uncircumcised males develop penile cancer is over 20 times higher than circumcised males, a condition that can require amputation at best and is fatal at worst."

 

from wikipedia:

I don't think it's really something worth worrying about.

 

this seems like it could be an issue when you're changing a poopy diaper everyday. although i admit that it's not a valid reason to cut off part of the baby's dick, just so that you can more easily clean it. sounds lazy and ridiculous.

yet, i'm very torn on this subject. having been circumcised, and not having any issues from it....i feel like i'd be more comfortable having my son the same as me. what if he resented me for NOT doing it? i could easily explain that i wanted to leave it up to him, and if i truly felt that way..i would have no regrets.

but maybe it's a good thing that i had it done as a baby, and can't remember it at all. pain is nothing really, other than the bad memory. but actually, even memory of terrible pain isn't that traumatizing. so maybe having an adult circumcision wouldn't be that bad in the long run?

when this topic gets brought up, i guess i have a slight curiosity that makes me wonder. it borders on "regret" or anger. but maybe i would have hated having it un cut. i don't know, and i'm happy as it is. you guys can't understand the social aspect of it if you don't live in america. it's quite possible that girls i've been with would have been grossed out by it being un cut. or i might be self conscious about it, since it's not "the norm."

again, not really a great reason to do it.

 

I still find it funny that nearly all the women are for it and nearly all the guys are against it...

Do you want to know what I think?

I think it's a sexist attempt to control the other gender. Just my opinion...


EDIT -- Don't get me wrong, I am truly not applying this to all women (not even close). I would never dream of doing that. But I think it is the case for a significant percentage of women who are pro-circumcision.

 

maybe that's 0.3 to 1 in 5,000 when not circumcised?

 

Great post thank you

I agree, although I'm still not really one for this concept of the "patriarchy", I must admit!

 

Maybe, not sure what data those numbers come from. To really figure out which was better for your overall health, I guess you'd have to compare rates of STDs, penile cancer, etc. and then also look at how many circumcisions result in complications and infections.

I'd guess that it probably doesn't really have an effect either way in countries like ours where we have access to clean water, soap, and doctors. In sub-Saharan Africa there is a big push for circumcision because it has been shown to reduce HIV transmission rates, but I think that it is only effective for that in places where people may not have consistent access to clean water and soap.

 

I never gave this topic a thought until I saw this thread. Being a single female with no children, it never even occurred to me.

The first time I ever saw an uncircumcised penis was when I was changing a child's diaper. I actually thought he was weirdly deformed and it freaked me out. Then I realized....

Anyhow. I think my initial reaction to the lack of circumcision is the main argument to circumcise, at least in this country: it's just perceived as normal. A cosmetic thing. Is it a big deal? No. Seeing an uncut man might be perceived similarly to seeing a woman who doesn't shave her body hair. Freaky at first, because it isn't what you are used to seeing. But you get used to it, it isn't a social death sentence or anything.

I like what you said, porkstock: pain is nothing other than a bad memory. Is circumcision Satan incarnate? No. Is it necessary? No. Does it matter on way or another...nah, not to me.

If I had a baby boy I suppose I'd leave it up to my husband/boyfriend to decide what to do. He would know better than me what it feels like to be cut/uncut. I certainly don't care enough to get worked up about the subject.

 

Thing is... it's very hard to ensure that it never happens, or conversely that it always happens. I think it's one of those things that will always exist to some degree.

I personally fully support making it illegal, as I've said. If I could, I would outlaw it right now and stop it from ever happening to a minor (certainly to an infant), along with any similar practices to females.

But I don't have the power to do that. I'm just one person and I'm not in a position of power.

I just hope that things change in the future, and I will do whatever I can to support that change

 

Hoppi, I can't see it ever being illegal since it is a sacred for practicing Jews and Christians.

Genesis 17:10-14

King James Version (KJV)

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.


Devout followers would feel as though they are committing a huge offense, and harming their children.

 

You realise surely that that is a moot point?

Otherwise, why can't Rastafarians smoke weed wherever they like?

Just because something is a religious practice does not make it immediately and inherently legal, does it?

 

Well, no, it doesn't make it inherently legal but I think it is an important consideration when trying to understand why circumcision is so prevalent. We do live in a certain culture, whether or not you agree with it.

And hey, Rastafarians can smoke as much weed as they want, whenever they want. At the same time, you and I don't live in a culture where Rasta is the dominant belief system. If we did, weed might be more accepted and readily available.

 

But they can't do it legally...

If Christians, Jews or Muslims found a new text tomorrow believed to be part of the Bible that said it was ok to murder other people for not believing in their god... that's all ok then?

Come on... some debates are just not worth having lol


Also... what do we think is the female equivalent to typical male circumcision? Is it removal of the clitoral hood? I don't think that's a fair comparison though, because the clitoral hood has relatively little sensitivity?

It would be constructive I think to know what the equivalent is in terms of impact on sexual organs and masculinity/femininity, because then it might help some women to understand why it's bad better.

If we lived in a world where either it was ok to remove the foreskin but only if it was also ok to remove the clitoral hood, is that ok?

 

I'm less debating with you and more reminding you that the dominant culture often dictates what is and isn't morally and socially acceptable.

If you want to change the rules and laws surrounding this, you would have to change the dominate culture.

 

well, many things in the Bible are illegal. Stoning people, for example. I'm sure the same is true of the Qur'an and Torah, and so on.

 

so do you not put ANY stock in the reasons for circumcision.

10x less likely to get a UTI
20x less likely to get penis cancer and possibly have to get your penis amputated because of it.

females who have sex with uncircumcised males also have certain risks.

and the culture thing. i'm gonna guess you aren't circumcised, so i bet your dad isn't. what would it be like to be different from your father? i bet that itself could create an emotional issue...

 

I don't know, I don't recall spending a lot of time looking at my dad's dong... lol

 

Well, we have covered penile cancer - it's very unlikely. I mean hey you still aren't protected from testicular cancer OR prostate cancer. Unless of course we remove the testicles and prostate as well xD

I never debated that having a foreskin makes one more prone to infection. I think that is pretty obvious. But I don't think it's a real argument to circumcise anyone because we can get infections all over the body. Our ears, eyes, toes, armpits... and of course how prone the vagina is too to infection. We should remove these body parts?

And... I like to be a man in the way that nature intended for me to be. I do not want to cut parts off of my body. Of course, I cannot speak for someone raised with a circumcised father, because neither me nor my dad were cut, but I know for a fact that sitting here now I have no desire to cut any naturally-occurring body parts off of myself or anybody else.

haha so true!

 

"Hoppi, I can't see it ever being illegal since it is a sacred for practicing Jews and Christians."
huh?

just being it's sacred in a religion doesn't make it legal/illegal. Smoking weed, circumcision, stoning, forcing women to wear a burkah, mandatory virginity for marriage, etc. These are all tenets of some religions. It doesn't have any relationship to legality. True, the United States was based on a foundation of traditional western religious basis, but above all it valued personal freedom above all else, (which is eliminated, when you mutilate a person before they can give consent)