The Nature of Time

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Meagain, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    Paradox---this is referring to the question of when is space/time/matter ever separated?

    My answer is that it is at the speed of light---matter cannot exist at the speed of light, it is all energy. In addition space and time, which are attributes of physical reality at a sub-light speed, all drop to zero when you are moving at the speed of light, the speed of time---the fourth dimension. This is the gestalt of physical existence. The gestalt of being (the foreground) against non-being (the background), the gestalt between the Now (the foreground) and the past and future (the backgrounds).

    Perception, in this case, is only the way we experience the physical world----the Now.
     
  2. tastyweat

    tastyweat Member

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    The split mind is the product of the single mind, a construct built for experience. Outside the realms of duality lies reality.

    Split mind suggests only a portion of the whole, when in reality - the split mind is the portion.



    I never claimed knowledge, only perception-based experience... which is part of the point of us being here. Knowledge is also tied to perception, it is a relative concept that should be allowed to evolve.
     
  3. tastyweat

    tastyweat Member

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    Good story - I've read many similar accounts and even accounts of re-incarnated beings who have been able to track down their old family while the family were still alive and get confirmation.

    My thoughts are that our current interpretation is slightly mistaken.

    I see the human-level brain as a transmitter/receiver - with the real memories stored in the morphogenetic field of the spirit and/or genetic line.
     
  4. tastyweat

    tastyweat Member

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    I think everything exists at the speed of light.

    Matter is simply condensed energy and light is transmission of energy. As the transferal of energy through light condenses into what we would perceive to be a more solid form, it does not lose what it was, it simply forms a condensed spiral.

    I suggest this behaviour, the condensation pattern of a photon into a more condensed form is the causes of the prevalence of fractals in our universe. I believe this is confirmed by the behaviour of particles exploding from a collision test at the likes of a particle collider like CERN.

    Physical dimensions are harmonic resonances of the relevant vibration, each .0 of a dimension forms a mandala, similar in expression to eastern mandalas - but far more complex. The next dimension being at a right angle to the last, from our 3.5-dimensional perspective, higher dimensions almost appear to fold in upon themselves.
     
  5. WOLF ANGEL

    WOLF ANGEL Senior Member - A Fool on the Hill Lifetime Supporter

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    Taking the Doctor Who "Time And Relative Dimension In Space" or the 'Shakespeare' "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy" theories into account = It is one of those Questions; witch is deep and of personal faith, and that will remain unanswered .......... at least for now :)
     
  6. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Are not matter and energy equal. Matter is a degree of illumination or vibratory speed.
    No separation, a shadow cast. All apparent boundaries are porous. Different densities scatter light making things seem incoherent.

    There is a difference between conception and perception, all perception arising from conception, the thought comes first.
     
  7. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    We could note this as being is doing and having and being are the same.
    Large oscillation develops at frequency, for duration, or as long as you blow your horn.
     
  8. tastyweat

    tastyweat Member

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    With respect to the conversion rates and constant that is relevant to the measurement units, yes... they are "equal".

    You have to break it down to see how that actually comes together though, E=mc^2 is a great headline equation, but you need to break it down :)

    Then key is that the speed of light is directly relevant to the measurement unit - what happens when the measurement unit changes? So does the speed relative to its previous universal value, yet we are unable to measure the fluctation.

    A few fringe scientists have show variations in the speed of light, not many truly understand the real meaning of relativity.

    Shadows are relative too, look at sunspots for a good example.

    That would depend entirely upon the origin of the thought... if the thought is spawned within a perception-based state - then the thought is tied to the perception. To break out of your self-imposed boundaries is not the easiest of tasks.

    Some thoughts do come first, I agree... the most important ones certainly appear to... but there are many levels to our perception and a purpose to every one.



    Even a conceived universal expression of a constant such as mathematics itself means different things to different people, it is also perception based.

    It is funny how many mathematicians claim mathematics to be a wholly encompassing universal constant, a multi-dimensional one at that (outside of the 3.5 of our current perception). The best comparison I can think of for them is by drawing a three dimensional cube on a piece of paper... sure, from a few angles it looks like a 3D cube and with a good drawing in the right setting, you could be excused for believing it to be one... however it will only ever be a 2D concept of a 3D item, it does not truly express the 3D unit.
     
  9. tastyweat

    tastyweat Member

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    My horn enjoys vibrating... hehe
     
  10. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    Yes---which is why it is a paradox as Tastyweat said. But in the physical world
    there is a difference which is clearly perceived and forms our physical reality. But even individual particles are more energy than substance, but from our physical perspective it usually makes more sense of us to see them as particles.


    Yes---this is very true in the model of the universe I have proposed---in which consciousness is the a priori---thought comes first---the thought of the thing manifests the thing. But the initial thought that is always implied even when it is not understood or realized must then be Sartre's pre-reflective cogito----in other words that pre-cognitive awareness that 'I am thinking.'
     
  11. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Again as far as being trapped in time, in what is time contained or what kind of container is time that you should be trapped by it?

    It is suggested that you cannot go back in time and change things and are therefor trapped but where is the past to go back to?
     
  12. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    I agree--though I think you understand that from our previous discussions on this. I think the way we can understand that everything is still in motion at the speed of light is that those photons that have been condensed (as you say) into matter are still in motion at the speed of light, it is just that they are in what we in a 3 dimensional universe experience as a jiggling back and forth rather than a straight line, giving rise to mass and which in turn bends the space-time continuum around it. And could it be that the bending of the space-time continuum in turn traps the photons to jiggling in place?

    Yet from the lower dimensions the only perception of the next higher dimension is an infinitely slim sliver (that is in the dimension of the next dimension. For example, someone who lives in a two dimensional universe would never perceive anything but a thin sliver of our universe which follows the two dimensions, but is infinitely small in terms of the 3rd dimension---it is infinitely small because the direction (or width or height or however you want to concieve of it) of the higher dimension is zero in the smaller dimensions, But, 2.) it is visible nonetheless because the smaller dimensions are within the higher dimension.

    This is why I speak of the Now as being infinitely small. But I also reason this because time in light-speed terms is infinitely small. In other words, if time only exists in light speed terms for a single infinitely small instant, then even though we live in a sub light speed universe--Einstein's theory states that the speed of light is still a constant---it is the only constant (unless such fringe scientists have found different). Therefore for any single point of light, it exists in the Now for only an infinitely small instant, and that instant is the true Now. We do not realize that because any point of light that is yet to be perceived (or interact with another particle) is still in the future---the 4th dimension. It is our minds that transcend across Nows, and it is also light that is still in our momentary future that gives, in addition to our minds, continuity to our reality.

    Of course there is also talk by some of dimensions that are folded and smaller within our own dimensions.

    Could you go into more detail about dimensions as harmonic resonances of the relevant vibration----that is a fascinating concept, and haven’t quite looked at it that way. Also could you explain more about the mandala. That is very interesting.
     
  13. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    we know that there was a past---our memory, history books, movies, pictures, and even the environment around us tells us so. We also know that there is a future---that things will happen. So physically, if you can only experience the present, and not physically travel to the future or the past, then how can you be free, i.e. how can you not be trapped in time?

    (Remember that the past in this scenario may not exist in the physical sense but it is still there in the sense of energy, because all in the 4th dimension it is all one instant anyway.)
     
  14. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    The notion "the speed of light" assumes an a priori, or at least a simultaneous space for the light to be moving through.

    Space without an object, would be omni directional and omni present. That is, one point in space would be no different from any other point in space. A point could not exist as all space would be the same.

    Likewise, light without space, would be omni directional and omni present. That is, light would be no different anywhere nor could it move without space. Light would exist everywhere, at all times, equally.

    For light to travel "at the speed of light", it must have a place to travel to and a rate to travel at. If it does in fact travel, then it must have a space to travel in and that space it travels in must have a dimensional nature.

    To have dimension, we must have an object or objects.
    Therefore any talk of "the speed of light" presumes time, space, and object.

    Once time, space, and object have been established, we then can begin to consider the relative views of that time/space/object universe from different rates of travel through that time/space/objective universe.

    But not before.
     
  15. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    This is a hard conception to transcend. The past consists of living tissue and is not a remote aspect, there is no was about it. We don't know there is a future, we anticipate living.
    Since time is constantly becoming, an event represents an out of time interval, there is no place in time to travel to. However perceptions of past are current constructs and we can upon deep inspection reconstitute in the minds eye ideas at their inception. I have memories that I shouldn't have if my memory is a result of my single lifetime. Some would interpret that as past life memory but it looks to me like listening to the currently playing record.
    And energy can be transduced using the right lens or proper angle.
     
  16. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    But when you speak of the speed of light you are speaking from the viewpoint of someone who is standing still.

    Let me see if I can come up with a simple explanation of how Minkowski applied geometry to the invariance of Einstein's theory of relativity. It will probably be crude at best... He discovered that it corresponds to the invariance found in right triangles inscribed within a semi-circle. The vertical side of the right triangle is time, the other axis is space (the space axis is based on light distance--how far light would go per the distance of the unit used. So if you use seconds, then a unit of 1 would be 186,000 miles on the space leg). As long as the vertical axis (time) is longer than the space axis then you are moving at sub-light speed and the hypotenuse is the time that passes during your trip. The length of the two axises would be based on the observer who is standing still.

    The time axis uses imaginary numbers while the space triangle uses real numbers. The more space you cover over a shorter time, the less steep the hypotenuse becomes, and it is because of this that the faster you travel the less time you age, or experience. To an observer standing still, it may have taken you 5 years to get from one place to another. But if you were going fast enough, you would have covered more space and therefore the hypotenuse may not be as steep and you would have experienced your trip in shorter time---say 4 years for example. On the other hand if you are standing still, and you cover no space----then time passes normally. The amount of space we cover at the very slow speeds we travel are so small that we notice very little difference from standing still---just imagine how much space you cover in your car in 1 second, compared to the speed of light--186,000 miles.

    But here is the crazy thing. If you cover 186,000 miles in 1 second (the speed of light), you would discover that the hypotenuse becomes zero: (i1 x i1) + (1 x 1) = -1 + 1 = 0. (i1 = imaginary 1, because the time axis is composed of imaginary numbers. This is what led to the discovery that light exists in zero time, even though we---standing still-----experience it moving 186,000 miles in 1 second. Now if you think about it in this way----if time itself was movement, and you suddenly accelerated to the same speed that time is moving, you would cease to experience time, but zero-time equates also to zero-space, and zero-space-time equates to zero mass----which is what the mass of a photon is.


    Yes you are right about the omni-direction and the omni-present---that is why the light as itself is a single infinitely small instant that covers all space and time.
     
  17. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    But none of what you are talking about is physical---physically you are still trapped in time. Your physical body is still stuck in the present.
     
  18. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Organized continuity is of the mind. Your physical body is not stuck in the present unless you think being present is a trap. Time is stuck in your head because of the use you have for it which is to bring it to an end, for things to appear eventful, or produce results. Time is concentric not linear as the past and future are malleable in the present. For the purposes of identifying experience the past the present and the future are all versions of events or verbal/visions counted as eventful, our talent being to name the animals of experience, they existing then as male and female creative principle each according to their kind.
     
  19. tastyweat

    tastyweat Member

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    I think it's a spiraling orbit, a very tight one of course.


    Yes - I believe Einstein to have had a fantastic grasp on many things - but the relative measurement system and "relative constant" directly related to that is something I have a bit of an issue with. Of course, given that our measurement systems are all based on relativity - I struggle to think of a way we could measure such fluctuations if the fabric of space itself is fluctuating (which I believe it to be).

    Or at least... expanding before it contracts back toward the singularity. An infinite toroidal field with a constant cycle or creation and recycling.



    I've found out a few interesting things in my other-dimensional travels :)

    One being that our existence itself forms many different forms of artwork in a multitude of ways. I've been exposed to some incredibly beautiful artwork, things that just don't appear to exist in this realm and some that can't.

    We, our seemingly independent expression, form a mandala ourselves... our soul path is a path that forms an intricate expression, our choices, actions and the consequences thereof forming an incredibly beautiful picture... or visually ugly, should you choose such a path.

    Our collective universe is a multitude of many different forms of universe all entangled together, each of our forms here is a universe in and of itself, linking into the collective / semi-physical universe through our interaction with it. When two people interact, it is quite literally two universes colliding - even if only momentarily.

    As that moves into the "physical" dimensions... I call them physical because that is the easiest word I can think to use to separate them from the separate, yet non-separate, primary consciousness dimensions. There is a seeming difference, even if all is interlinked... one is a condensed-holographic projection of the other.

    We are not just a visual form of artwork, we are everything mixed into one... a musical composition is another primary form.

    Thinking about the physical dimensions in terms of a musical symphony, you can observe how various different frequencies form resonances as you step through various musical notes (I can give examples if you like, but I think you will get that :)). The resonances seem more comprehensive in music that is tuned to 432Hz, rather than 440Hz.

    If you were to play this music through a system that would go through dry sand, at various points you would have images depicted by the way the resonance manipulates the sand.

    In a similar way, the apparently physical dimensions are fundamentally wave vibration. All wave vibration has specific combination points that can form primary peaks or specific resonances.

    As we transcend the physical/consciousness universes combined, we push through to points where these resonances hit. When these resonant points occur, it is like popping into a bran new realm of awareness.

    The way it looks itself, is extremely hard for me to put into words - it's one of the many things that transcends language - although it is always worth a try :)

    These resonant points create a kind of fuzziness at the mid-points, so as you transition it can seem... interesting... lol... a little chaotic.

    I've managed to shift my attention to what I would consider to be the 6th dimension so far and I think I have glimpsed the 7th. Looking "back" here from there is simply astonishing, my "peak" into the 7th dimension was holding this universe in my hands... at these states you have points of knowing that are unlike anything I've felt here and I just know I held this universe in my hands (gift or whatever, I'm unsure - feel free to call me nuts hehe). It was one of the most amazing experiences of my life.

    It almost seems redundant to put labels on the dimensions as they are all one single thing, so to separate them seems un-necessary - but it is the best way to explain the points of resonance.

    We all form a multi-dimensional one of these, in the musical spectrum as well as the visual:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Chenrezig_Sand_Mandala.jpg
     
  20. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    Thankyou (awesome pic, just resize)
    please :)
     

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