UK Royal Marine charged with murder for killing Taliban insurgent

Oh, right. In this case, not just America - but other countries, including the Afghani business community... (unsurprisingly)http://mom.gov.af/en

 

I read quite a bit of it. Going back tomorrow to read the rest. Mark my words-------nah. Just wait.

 

I found it interesting...

 

Odon,

The issue is why the New York Times is reporting that these mineral resources are newly discovered when they're not.

You're ignoring this:

One retired senior U.S official is calling the government’s mineral announcement “pretty silly,” Politico is reporting. “When I was living in Kabul in the early 1970s the [U.S. government], the Russians, the World Bank, the U.N. and others were all highly focused on the wide range of Afghan mineral deposits. Cheap ways of moving the ore to ocean ports has always been the limiting factor.”

At least two American geologists have been advising the Pentagon on Afghanistan’s wealth of mineral resources for years. Bonita Chamberlin, a geologist who spent 25 years working in Afghanistan, “identified 91 minerals, metals and gems at 1,407 potential mining sites,” the Los Angeles Times reported in 2001. In 1995, she even co-wrote a book, “Gemstones in Afghanistan,” on the topic. And Chamberlin worked directly with the Pentagon, after they commissioned her to report on sandstone and limestone caves mere weeks after 9/11.

“I am quite surprised that the military is announcing this as some ‘new’ and ‘surprising” discovery,’ she told Danger Room in an e-mail. “This is NOT new. Perhaps this also hints at the real reason why we would be so intent on this war.”

What are you contending the U.S. didn't know about?

_____________________________________

And you never did answer the question of why the U.S. didn't provide evidence of Bin Laden's guilt concening 9/11 when that's all the Afghan government required in exchange for turning him over. I ask about this because without evidence of his guilt, it puts the invasion of Afghanistan in the catagory of a war crime. Did you uncover any damning evidence against Bin Laden? I couldn't find any.

So, not enough evidence to convict him of the crime, but enough evidence to invade a country to look for him. Is that the story, or am I missing something?

 

We supplied the Osama #1 when Russia was trying to take their resource's. They drove them back and now we have Osama#2 keep fueling the fire so we can get whatever they have.

Simple fact, From the dawn of time, Man with big rock, Took what man with little rock had. Just take a cruise through history and wars, Most were fought for $$ and land.

The USA showed proof, Osama1 was on video claiming responsibility for the attacks. Good enough for me to justify going to war with the shithole. Like said, Only thing there worth the shit is the resources.

Everyone profits from war, From the small man who makes baby wipes so our soldiers can stay somewhat clean, To the guy who makes bomb casings and the other who fills them.
A soldier comes home, Buys items from money made from war, Back into the economy to keep the river of $$ flowing. He will need a house, Car, etc and all benefit to an extent.

You are not going to stop 'war' or slow it down. if 'they' want war, They will get it. Always have, Always will. The only thing that makes these different, Are that our technology is so advanced now we don't have to do as much, To kill 10x the amount.
To each their own, You wont beat them and they will get what they want by any means.

 

Id agree with that, Straight, Blunt and to the point. Don't take a genius to figure it out if you take a look back at track records.

But IMO, Id say the killing is 20x, Nobama has a drone controller for when he feels bad or 'needs a distraction' like usual to try and 'blame and lie' his way out.

 

Who are 'them/they'?

 

The whole world already knows the truth abdul.an anyone that thinks they don't are only fooling themselves.welcome ta hip:2thumbsup:

 

Well the owner(s) of the company's and its investors. The people you most likely hate. But they are providing jobs and good pay, More than can be said for osama2.

 

I read a few articles:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10311752

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18882996

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-wa...st-reserves-of-minerals-and-natural-gas/19769

And I'm not really sure who is saying what and when, to be honest.
I can't tell if it means that already known sites were valued, or those were 'new,' if the entire region was being valued or some 'new' sites.
The Afghan government commissioned a geological survey.
Or was it funded by the US Department of Defense's Task Force for Business and Stability Operations (TFBSO) as well as the Afghan government?
Was it carried out by Pentagon officials and American geologists?

Like I said:

I have not matched up what was known, and what is now known.
Have you?
I doubt the totality of the mineral resources were known - or why else would Bonita Chamberlin continue to look (after 1995)?
(And Chamberlin worked directly with the Pentagon, after they commissioned her to report on sandstone and limestone caves mere weeks after 9/11.)
Surely everything was known by the 80's!
(Btw, Jack Shroder, seems not to have spent his entire time looking for minerals)
So I do not know what is not new and what is new, and what might be being described as 'new' which isn't.
Perhaps clear that one up.

Do you know where: 'The previously unknown deposits — including huge veins of iron, copper, cobalt, gold and critical industrial metals like lithium.' - were found, and who found them previously?

I'm not.

Nobody is saying these minerals were not first found decades ago.

Where? When? And how much? Was it all of it?

I've asked this before.

Quite a lot.

 

Odon,

I noted that you never did answer the question of why the U.S. didn't provide evidence of Bin Laden's guilt concening 9/11 when that's all the Afghan government required in exchange for turning him over. I ask about this because without evidence of his guilt, it puts the invasion of Afghanistan in the catagory of a war crime. Did you uncover any damning evidence against Bin Laden? I couldn't find any. Then I commented on the fact that there was not enough evidence to convict him of the crime, but enough evidence to invade a country to look for him. Then I asked you if that was the story, or was I missing something. You said I was missing quite a lot. So, fill me in. What am I missing about that? Start with that, if you would.

__________________________________

From the New York Times, June of 2010:

Armed with the old Russian charts, the United States Geological Survey began a series of aerial surveys of Afghanistan’s mineral resources in 2006, using advanced gravity and magnetic measuring equipment attached to an old Navy Orion P-3 aircraft that flew over about 70 percent of the country.

The data from those flights was so promising that in 2007, the geologists returned for an even more sophisticated study, using an old British bomber equipped with instruments that offered a three-dimensional profile of mineral deposits below the earth’s surface. It was the most comprehensive geologic survey of Afghanistan ever conducted. The handful of American geologists who pored over the new data said the results were astonishing.

_____________________________

Still want to hang on to your ideas about who knew what, and when they knew it?

 

Almost wiped out by the Taliban but now be produced in records
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/13/afghanistan-record-opium-crop-poppies-un

The United states spys are now dancing in drug money

 

The same page has one about increased cannabis production too. Must be nice!

 

Abdul,

Are you intimating that the U.S. is supporting and protecting the production and trade of heroin in Afghanistan?

 

I think you parachuted in a question that isn't really needed to be responded to.
I think you turned from having to answer questions to asking them.
This seems to be your way of working.
Please answer the questions asked.
Those would be the sentences with a ? at the end.
Thank You.

“There were maps, but the development did not take place, because you had 30 to 35 years of war,” said Ahmad Hujabre, an Afghan engineer who worked for the Ministry of Mines in the 1970s.

Armed with the old Russian charts, the United States Geological Survey began a series of aerial surveys of Afghanistan’s mineral resources in 2006, using advanced gravity and magnetic measuring equipment attached to an old Navy Orion P-3 aircraft that flew over about 70 percent of the country.

The data from those flights was so promising that in 2007, the geologists returned for an even more sophisticated study, using an old British bomber equipped with instruments that offered a three-dimensional profile of mineral deposits below the earth’s surface. It was the most comprehensive geologic survey of Afghanistan ever conducted.

The handful of American geologists who pored over the new data said the results were astonishing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

The NYT's article seems to be talking about the published results from the 2006/7 survey.

Open-File Report 2006-1038

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2006/1038/

Data Summary

The geologic and mineral resource information shown on this map is derived from digitization of the original data from Abdullah and Chmyriov (1977) and Abdullah and others (1977). The U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) has made no attempt to modify original geologic map-unit boundaries and faults as presented in Abdullah and Chmyriov (1977); however, modifications to map-unit symbology, and minor modifications to map-unit descriptions, have been made to clarify lithostratigraphy and to modernize terminology. Labeling of map units has not been attempted where they are small or narrow, in order to maintain legibility and to preserve the map's utility in illustrating regional geologic and structural relations. Users are encouraged to refer to the series of USGS/AGS (Afghan Geological Survey) 1:250,000-scale geologic quadrangle maps of Afghanistan that are being released concurrently as open-file reports.

The classification of mineral deposit types is based on the authors' interpretation of existing descriptive information (Abdullah and others, 1977; Bowersox and Chamberlin, 1995; Orris and Bliss, 2002) and on limited field investigations by the authors. Deposit-type nomenclature used for nonfuel minerals is modified from published USGS deposit-model classifications, as compiled in Stoeser and Heran (2000). New petroleum localities are based on research of archival data by the authors.

The shaded-relief base is derived from Shuttle Radar Topography Mission (SRTM) digital elevation model (DEM) data having 85-meter resolution. Gaps in the original SRTM DEM dataset were filled with data digitized from contours on 1:200,000-scale Soviet General Staff Sheets (1978–1997). The marginal extent of geologic units corresponds to the position of the international boundary as defined by Abdullah and Chmyriov (1977), and the international boundary as shown on this map was acquired from the Afghanistan Information Management Service (AIMS) Web site (http://www.aims.org.af) in September 2005. Non-coincidence of these boundaries is due to differences in the respective data sources and to inexact registration of the geologic data to the DEM base. Province boundaries, province capital locations, and political names were also acquired from the AIMS Web site in September 2005. The AIMS data were originally derived from maps produced by the Afghanistan Geodesy and Cartography Head Office (AGCHO).

Version 2 differs from Version 1 in that (1) map units are colored according to the color scheme of the Commission for the Geological Map of the World (CGMW) (http://www.ccgm.org), (2) the minerals database has been updated, and (3) all data presented on the map are also available in GIS format.

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/afghanminerals/


It seems to have taken them 3-4 years to collate the data.

Are you thinking the article from 2010 was referring to new finds in 2010 rather than data taken from 2006/7?

If you could answer the questions I asked in relation to what you think is old, new, known, not known, and what the NYT's is referring to that is supposedly already known (etc) - that would help.

At the moment you are talking about data that I do not know about - so can't really comment on.

 

I certainly am saying that. Everyone should get to know some of the Afghanistan refugees because they tell completly different stories then what is in the news.

 

Odon,

Of course the question I asked needs to be responded to in the context of what this thread is about--UK marine charged with murder. If the marine is part of an illegal invasion, then that changes things a bit when it comes to who's guilty of what. I'm surprised you don't see the relevance So, did you find any evidence for Bin Laden's guilt? I'm guessing your answer is no, and that you therefore don't care to discuss it. Is that about right?

And the issue concerning the New York Times article is why Afghanistan's wealth of mineral resources was presented as newly discovered when it wasn't. So, why would they have done that?

Odon: "If you could answer the questions I asked in relation to what you think is old, new, known, not known, and what the NYT's is referring to that is supposedly already known (etc) - that would help."

From previous post: The data from those flights was so promising that in 2007, the geologists returned for an even more sophisticated study, using an old British bomber equipped with instruments that offered a three-dimensional profile of mineral deposits below the earth’s surface. It was the most comprehensive geologic survey of Afghanistan ever conducted.

 

And Odon, what do make of this news that the U.S. military is supporting and protecting the heroin production and trade in Afghanistan? Can than be right?

 

I can't see how it changes anything with regard to the guilt of this Marine. Soldiers don't get a choice as to where they are sent, nor do they have any input into the legal side of an invasion. And they can't refuse to go. They just have to obey orders.
This guy didn't obey orders but took things into his own hands.
I don't see how the legal status of the overall operation makes any difference. It's a completely separate issue.

 

Since there is no evidence of Bin Laden's guilt in the matter of the 9/11 attack, will you concede the point that the invasion of Afghanistan is illegal according to the Geneva Convention and international law? If so, then will you concede the point that NATO forces are the terrorists in the eyes of those who resist the invasion and occupation of their country?

And you're simply wrong about military personnel having to just obey orders. They have an obligation and a duty to obey only lawful orders, and an obligation to disobey unlawful orders. The invasion of Afghanistan was illegal.