Does the military belong in schools?

Stop being a coward and just present your evidence, Storch.

EDIT: I need to see your examples, Storch, before I can pass my own judgement on them either way

 

Stop being a coward and let me know what point you will concede when I show you what you can't seem to find for yourself . . . Sig.

 

You must really have nothing. I'm done doing this dance with you. Let me know when you're finally willing to present your evidence, Storch.

 

I already asked you how your support of JROTC will change if the examples I have turn out to be non-anecdotal. Care to committ to an answer to that?

EDIT: The humorous thing about this is that you've never researched what we're talking about to find these examples for yourself. Go do that, and then get back with me, though I doubt that seeing it for yourself will change anything about your support for JROTC.

 

No, it does not belong in schools at first instance.

 

Why do you think so?

 

It's my opinion that primary and high school can function perfectly without it. So at first instance I would say no, it does not BELONG there.
Now, since some kids after highschool going to start their careers and every bit of insight can help them with their choice and finding a direction and most importantly as long as they are not brainwashed (mild form: talked into military for the wrong reasons)/forced into it I see no big harm in it.

 

It is in almost every example I know of. The only examples where I know participation is mandatory are private schools, like military academies (obviously) and a private school here in Minnesota. Obviously those are a little different than those programs run in public schools, like in the article in the OP. From what I know those are all voluntary and are electives.

 

I see what you mean. It doesn't belong any more than school sports belong in that regard.

Regardless, in the case of public schools like the one in the OP, participation in JROTC is entirely voluntary.

 

Sports are more relevant for schools in my opinion, also to make them obligatory, like the gym class. And I'm not saying that because I was so into them because I wasn't

 

I disagree, though I think sports are important as well. I just don't see how they are any different in the sense that they are any more relevant to a child's education than JROTC.

 

Sig,

Really . . . those are the only examples you could find?

Anyone reading this thread has probably already goggled "examples of JROTC enrollment involuntary" and found the examples that have eluded you thus far.

 

Still not willing to share those examples you claim to have?

 

You could ask anyone, Sig, and they'll tell you what to google. But why would anyone do that for you when you could, and should, do it for yourself? Pretending not to see these examples is not an option.

Did you google "examples of JROTC enrollment involuntary"? Do that, and then tell me what part of the examples you find doesn't register as examples to you. It's right there, Sig.

 

Still waiting....

 

So, are you saying that you googled the issue and couldn't find what everyone else did? That has to be deliberate.

 

No, I am saying I am still waiting for you to provide the evidence you claim to have. Simply saying, "I have evidence, now go find it yourself" is absurd when it comes to a debate.

 

ACLU Slams JROTC as Violation of International Law
by Marc Norton‚ May. 20‚ 2008
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The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) released a major report last week stating that the Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps (JROTC) violates a protocol of the United Nations-sponsored Convention on the Rights of the Child, by targeting students as young as 14 for recruitment to the military.

"The United States military's procedures for recruiting students plainly violate internationally accepted standards and fail to protect youth from abusive and aggressive recruitment tactics," according to Jennifer Turner of the ACLU Human Rights Project.

The international protocol analyzed by the ACLU report outlaws the recruitment of child soldiers. The U.S. Senate ratified this protocol in 2002, making it the law of the land, and agreed not to recruit soldiers under the age of 17. However, as usual, the U.S. military sees itself as above the law.

As any dunderhead can see, JROTC -- a prime recruitment tool of the military -- includes high school students well under the age of 17, including many freshmen and sophomores.

The San Francisco school board voted in November 2006 to end JROTC in San Francisco schools this June. Last December, the school board extended JROTC for another year, until June 2009. However, the JROTC Must Go! Coalition continues to press the board to end JROTC now. (See "JROTC Must Go Now" in the May 14 Bay Guardian.)

The release of the new ACLU report on May 13, titled "Soldiers of Misfortune," only adds fuel to the fire of the anti-JROTC movement.

The ACLU report also takes aim at one of the spurious claims of the pro-JROTC forces -- that JROTC is "voluntary." It is worth quoting the ACLU report at length on this:

"Students are involuntarily placed in the JROTC program in some public schools. For example, teachers and students in Los Angeles, California reported that 'high school administrators were enrolling reluctant students in JROTC as an alternative to overcrowded gym classes.' Involuntary placement of Los Angeles students has been a continuing problem, with involuntary enrollment surging before the fall deadline that requires enrollment levels of 100 students to keep the program running (federal law requires JROTC programs to have a minimum of 100 students or 10% of the student body, whichever is less, in order to maintain a unit)."

According to a recent survey of over 800 San Francisco JROTC students, 15.6% of the cadets who responded claimed that they were "placed in the program without my consent." Reports of SF students being placed involuntarily in JROTC go back to at least 1995, during a previous attempt by members of the school board to abolish JROTC.

In Buffalo, New York, according to the New York Civil Liberties Union, the entire incoming freshmen class at Hutchinson Central Technical High School was involuntarily enrolled in JROTC in 2005.

The Pentagon has a long and deadly reach. It is criminal that they continue to send our young men and women to foreign lands like Iraq to fight and die in illegal and immoral wars. It is intolerable that the San Francisco school board continues to aid and abet the Pentagon -- allowing them to flaunt international law with impunity by recruiting our 14, 15 and 16 year old sons and daughters for their war-mongering.

 

If you want to prove him wrong then just post up some examples and let him respond. You're acting like a child here.

 

Sig,

So, you're admitting to neglecting, and still refusing, to research the issue to find out whether you're right or wrong. OK, fair enough. But everyone reading this has aready googled it and is wondering why you haven't.

When you don't research, you get played with.