Libertarian: Pro gun Hippy

Again, you're confusing immigrate with settle. They are two separate terms.

Right, the Native Americans came to North America and established themselves. Many thousands of years later the Europeans came. Those Europeans did not join in the existing, Native American structures. ie, they didn't immigrate. Instead, hey formed their own and operated independently of those native structures. They hacked out their own existence.

My direct ancestors (ie my father's line) weren't immigrants. They were here before there was an America and, as such, there was no America for them to immigrate to. Instead they, along with many other European settlers, founded separate power structures that eventually lead to the formation of America.

Furthermore, I never once claimed that my people are the real United States or that they were the only real citizens. Instead, all I am saying is that this country was not founded by immigration, nor was it a nation of immigrants. We certainly have seen massive amounts of immigration after the fact but, without that immigration, America would still be here.

 

LOL – and 7% said they were not – in a poll? I wonder if the FBI have their names and numbers by now?

[an aside - And what is meant by ‘loyal’ in this context, I mean is it not having sex with another country behind you owns countries back or something? I mean I’ve metaphorically done that – I lived very happily in other countries (there are parts of France I know a lot better than I do virtually anywhere in the UK). I’ve often talked up the countries I’ve lived in and have criticised and frankly bitched about England’s many shortfalls. Is being a Francophile or Germanophile or whatever a sign of being a disloyal brit?]

7% of 2.6 million= 182000 ‘disgruntled’ Muslims, but that doesn’t equate in to hordes of them in the US giving “silent prayer to allah for our agonizing death through torture” to quote the post above.

 

Sig

I believe the term America was used long before the establishment of the United States of America, (see below - 1507) I think it was used for the new world or areas of it and before the USA there was British America.In English, "American" was used especially for people in the British America, and came to be applied to citizens of the United States when the country was formed. (wiki by way of the Oxford English Dictionary)
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So I’d say your ancestors did migrate to America, they just didn't migrate to the United States of America.
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Anyway I’m wondering what is the point here – as I’ve said unless you live in one area of Africa and your ancestors always have then your ancestors were immigrants once.
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[/FONT]The derivation of America has several explanatory naming theories. The most common is Martin Waldseemüller's deriving it from Americus Vespucius, the Latinised version of Amerigo Vespucci's name, the Italian merchant and cartographer who explored South America's east coast and the Caribbean sea in the early 16th century. Later, his published letters were the basis of Waldseemüller's 1507 map, which is the first usage of America. The adjective American subsequently denotes the New World's peoples and things. (wiki)

 

Me,

We had monthly meeting with Richard Hongisto who was top LE in the bay area. Law Enforcement were fully aware that we were armed and we had a large body of people in the immediate vicinity. I think the pay offs kept them off our backs for the most part.

We must have missed a payment bc they Blew Up one of our houses on Page St in 74'. It was over a bicycle, they blew up a tenement building with incendiary bombs over a bicycle. The house was occupied with several women and children.

It was not the time nor the place to bring out the guns, too many innocent ppl around. They would have blew us up too. They came to destroy and destroy they did.

They had shields and riot gear on. They had us at a disadvantage. There were ones in the crowd that were prepared but most of us weren't bc we didn't know that the leos started the fire, we just knew there was a fire bc of the fire trucks blasting the street with sirens blowing.

We ran to help, we did not expect to see the reality of the situation. It was mind blowing to me to see the leos hold the firefighters back from putting out the fire, telling them to "let It Burn, burn them all out".. The firemen were not armed, we were unarmed. We had no warning no time to to get it together.

I am not for certain but I believe that one of the Brothers may have fired off a shot at the Leos when they came busting in to arrest a 9 month pregnant girl who was suppose to have stolen a bicycle and carried it up a very steep staircase.

The Brothers were not inclined to turn her over as they knew she did not take the bike. The women and children escaped out the back with the clothes on their backs. I stood by Mama Kitten and her two little girls Ronnie and Hasha, as she cried, watching everything she had go up in smoke. All I could do was hold her as we watched it burn.

This is the very thing that we are against and why we should be armed. Just bc someone has a uniform and a badge does not give them ultimate authority over civilian's rights.

We had the right, we just didn't have the foresight.I think we got a little to powerful in the neighborhood and the leoa wanted to show their force and intimidate us. We were surrounded and out numbered to show any force, it would have ended badly and put too many lives at risk.

Forgive the Chapter it seems I've written. When it comes I can't turn it off until it's complete.

 

About that time the Police Chief of SF was quoted in the press as saying the Haight Ashbury was the 'most heavily armed neighborhood in the country'. From what I myself saw he was correct! The SFPD backed off and called for peace talks not after peaceful marches, but only after someone bombed their stationhouse. They then appointed a 'Community Relations Officer' and began an ongoing community meetings and listening.

 

Yes, I acknowledged that. I am not splitting hairs though. There is a very clear difference between the two concepts. If the Europeans had came, lived with the natives, as well as operated under their political and social structures, you could call them immigrants. They did nothing of the sort though.

Genocide isn't what happened, but that is a topic for a totally different thread. That said, so what? Either way they settled what was either unsettled or what they conquered.

Those peoples were displaced by the arrival of Europeans. Again, Europeans didn't immigrate to the Americas. They came, carved out their own territories, and settled.

 

ehhh, I think it is a bit hard to say that for certain. So much depends on the scenario involved.

 

Fair enough, my friend. I would be interested in such a thread if you ever decide to create it.

 

Although Ironically me and my family wouldn't be here , Europeans who married Native Americans. My grandfather already answered this for me, not only would I not exist, but our other ancestors would still be here in America, doing what they did before they had the white man to fight against, each other

 

Sig

They came, carved out their own territories, and settled.

The very definition of an immigrant - a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence.(Random House Dictionary)

It seems to me irrelevant if they set up their own community or joined an existing one – the thing is they moved from one place to another.

Why are you seemingly trying to give yourself more legitimacy than others?

I mean you seem to be suggesting that your ancestors were not immigrants but all others who came after were meaning that they and by extension you are more of a legitimate ‘American’.

I think is seems a bit silly given that we are all immigrants.

 

Yeah the debate between immigrants VS settlers is semantics IMHO. Tis why I am staying out of this debate.

 

Ahhhh, I feel like I'm home!

I'm a Jeffersonian agrarian voluntarist that loves the 2nd amendment.

 

Welcome home American lady.

 

I don't know how much of a true hippie I am (probably far from it), but I can appreciate your spirit and I admire much of the movement! I, too am libertarian!!

FWIW, if you're curious abut teh environment, I posted this response about eight years ago here. The topic was on cars and the environment and I illustrate some ways we can help our environment without government oppression:

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showpost.php?p=1958053&postcount=141

Keep the faith!