heya, there was a documentary on tonight on a subject which i thought was potentially extremely interesting, but unfortunately i got in late and missed it. I'm hoping to catch a repeat, but was wondering if anyone on here knew anything about it. essentially it concerns what i think was called "plan red" The US blueprint for what amounted to pretty much a war between Britain and the british empire and the US, before world war 2. i believe that there was also a "red-orange plan" for a war fought simultaneously between the british empire and japan. i already knew that there was a fair bit of animosity and rivalry between the two nations during WW2, and that the USA were interested in breaking the british empire and limiting Britain's post-war power in europe (for example, veto-ing the plan to invade europe from africa through the balkans and instead insisting on a southern italian invasion because, while this lost us the initiative gained from successes in North africa, and could have ended the war sooner, going through the balkans and gaining allies there could situate britain in a dangerously powerful position after germany's defeat) but i never knew that there was an actual plan in place for all-out war with the british empire, or how close it came to being implemented. anyone ever heard about this?
Series 2011 - America's Planned War On Britain: Revealed Sorry, this episode is not currently available to watch on Demand 5. http://www.channel5.com/shows/revealed/episodes/americas-planned-war-on-britain-revealed Perhaps I am being unfair, but perhaps the programme was a little sensationalised. I remember watching it a few years ago, and looking into it. I'll have to do it again. Details of an amazing American military plan for an attack to wipe out a major part of the British Army are today revealed for the first time. War on the 'Red Empire': How America planned for an attack on BRITAIN in 1930 with bombing raids and chemical weapons Emerging world power feared British reaction to its ambitions Plan Red was code for massive war with British Empire Top-secret document once regarded as 'most sensitive on Earth' $57m allocated for building secret airfields on Canadian border - to launch attack on British land forces based there In 1930, a mere nine years before the outbreak of World War Two, America drew up proposals specifically aimed at eliminating all British land forces in Canada and the North Atlantic, thus destroying Britain's trading ability and bringing the country to its knees. Previously unparalleled troop movements were launched as an overture to an invasion of Canada, which was to include massive bombing raids on key industrial targets and the use of chemical weapons, the latter signed off at the highest level by none other than the legendary General Douglas MacArthur. The plans, revealed in a Channel 5 documentary, were one of a number of military contingency plans drawn up against a number of potential enemies, including the Caribbean islands and China. There was even one to combat an internal uprising within the United States. In the end there was no question of President Franklin D. Roosevelt subscribing to what was known as War Plan Red. Instead the two countries became the firmest of allies during WW2, an occasionally strained alliance that continues to this day. Still, it is fascinating that there were enough people inside the American political and military establishment who thought that such a war was feasible. While outside of America, both Churchill and Hitler also thought it a possibility during the 30s - a time of deep economic and political uncertainty. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-raids-chemical-weapons.html#axzz2JhEMz9FJ
well, there does seem to be an opinion knocking around that since the British empire was the US' big trading rival, they would have been perfectly content to continue their isolationist policy and sit back as the second world war effectively put paid to the empire, had churchill not siezed the opportunity of pearl harbour to blackmail FDR into joining in. although whether this trade rivalry would have lead to actual war is unlikely, it might be feasible that the US might have exerted some form of pressure on british colonies in order to de-stabilise them, but this is all just idle speculation, since the war ended up with any such plans ganging a gley.
Among the contingency plans developed were: Orange: War against Japan Green: Against Mexico Purple: South America White: Domestic uprising Black: Germany Grey: Caribbean republics Yellow: China Brown: Philippines I think you can pick apart history forever. But they seemed to have a contingency for most of the developed world, and including themselves. A little paranoid, perhaps. Do you think any other country had the same contingency plans?
not identical ones, of course (not many european countries feared an invasion by mexico), but it behooves one well to plan for every conceivable scenario. one of the reasons i planned to watch the documentary was to see exactly how and why these plans were made and how close to fruition these plans came, given that the "special relationship" at the time was a lot more sour than we like to remember. slighlty dissapointing to find us merely in the "also-ran" category, rather than the top of the hit-list
When countries put 'everything on the table' these days they are war mongers. That's why I thought it might have been a tad sensationalised.
I watched that earlier tonight! Id never previously heard about it but what I gathered from the documentary was that the US were going to try and invade parts of canada, to stop trading to the british and as it is part of the British commonwealth. America was in a great depression from after WW1 at the time, banks were closed in over half the states, lots of people out of work. Roosevelt had began moving troops towards North America, and set up bases in Canada also. The planned attacks are actually one of the prime reasons we became allies. Britain was not willing to 'hand over' Canada to the US, but we were seen as a major threat being the wealthiest 'empire' in the world at the time. I do find it strange however that Hitler claimed the plans to be inevitable, and that he would want Britain to win, so that the UK could join Germany in taking over the US. Weird to think what may had happened had the plans occured, as England had some strong (and secretive) connections with Nazi Germany. I am interested in the subject but as nothing really went ahead there isn't too much to actually look into, the predictions of what probably would have happened (made recently by naval experts etc) were that not many would have died and it would have been a war mainly out at sea, resulting in Britian handing the US Canada in order not to risk the loss of the trading industry that we partially relied on. Just look at us now, best friends aye?
to be fair, openly making war plans about other nations doesn't do you many favours around the negotiating table...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSvnIwg0lEA"]Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder - Ebony And Ivory (Live at the White House 2010) - YouTube (In harmony - but out of sync : / )
i suppose a lack of material would mean that the documentary is spread fairly thin, still, its interesting to speculate on alternate histories, and WW2/pre-WW2 is fertile ground for the imagination, given some of the absurdly minor events that seemed to take on massive significance to the course of the war.
Quite! The military are responsible for advising the politicians on what is militarily possible, and for carrying out the politicians' instructions. Every military on the planet worthy of the name tries to prepare plans for each and every mission which the politicians might possibly ask them to undertake - even if only to enable them to say "I'm sorry - but you have not equipped us with the necessary resources to do it!"
My analysis is that the USA began working to undermine British Imperial power back in the 19th c. Certainly it was on Lincolns agenda. There was a chance that Britain might have supported the confederacy, because of the cheap cotton vital for Britains textile industry supplied through slave labour.Emancipation served not only to free the slaves, but to ensure Britain would not get involved. And pay a higher price for cotton. As Britains industrial decline beagan during the decade following the war, so America grew rapidly to become the worlds leading industrial power, as was inevitable. I think Americas intervention in WWI was also in a way an attempt to wrest dominance from Britain, as well as the other old empires. Woodrow Wilson wanted "peace without victory", and for all parties to accept his redrawn map of what europe should look like post war, as well as a powerful league of nations. Instead, at Versailles, the British and French wanted their pound of flesh, and ensured they got it, leaving Wilsons peace plans more or less in ruins. The Republican dominated US senate ensured that America would not be in the league of nations, and hence it became a body with no real power. Germany was pushed into economic disaster which led to the conditions which favoured Hitlers rise. But by 1918 Britain was hugely in debt to the USA for war loans. And in Britain itself, the old class system which underscored Imerial values had been shattered forever by the massive casualties and horrors of the war. As US power exanded, so Britain fell into terminal decline, a process furthered by WWII, and which we still see today. Agruably, America too is now on the way down, and loosing global influence. Id be surprised if the USA didnt have a contingency plan for a war with Britain between the wars. It maybe that it looked possible that facism would take over here too, and Britain might have become a big thorn in the side for the US. As it turned out, FDR acted a a freind and ally to Britain during the early years of WWII, before the US became involved directly. No doubt though that Roosevelt realized that the death knell of the British empire had sounded. And shed few tears over the fact.Ditto Stalin. And at their final conference in Yalta, Churchill was reportedly sidelined by the other 2 of the "big 3". However, the Brits can always comfort themselves with the memory of burning down Washington DC in 1812.....................
Right before WW2 as bad as it sounds the USA sould have allied with germany/italy in order to destroy russia. Turned around crushed germany and italy. Then used the atlantic fleet to destroy the british navy (possibly used the new irisih nation to help) and blockade shiiping to britain. Japan would always have limited suppiles so let them burn out their reserves fighting china. Then invade the weaknd britain, wait until the conquered populations are willing to be loyal to usa. Then crush japan, once subdued invade and conquer the weakened china. And boom no possible super power but USA baby! end of story.
the pentagon has war plans to invade every country on earth. they are just tactical plans in case they would ever have to use them
I think you are over estimating the ability of the American military. In both world wars we showed up after allot of fighting had been done, we were fresh, they were not. We have two oceans as a natural border, but we are still easy to invade if you wanted. We would have run out of steam before we could own the world as you seem to suggest. Why do we have a right to do that anyway? Aren't we no better then Hitler then? As an American I hear people say all the time that Europe owes us something because we "saved" them from Hitler. That is bullshit, if we were getting bombed every day like Britain I don't think we would have been so tough. Germany lost because they got in over the head in the Russian winter, not because America was involved. If Hitler had not broken his treaty with Russia I think he had a shot. The distance between Germany and the rest of Europe is much closer then Germany to the USA. We hid behind the Atlantic ocean.
But basically amierca could have let the rest of the world destroy each other then come mop up and claim the riches.
well to be fair the very title of the thread screams for a troll, im only surprised that it took so long for one to show up.
