Martial Arts

Ok so I understand that studying martial arts can be a path to enlightenment and that with enlightenment comes unimaginable things.
So tonight I watched the movie 'Hero' and was wondering the relevance of the style of fighting (I think a lot like the fighting in crouching tiger hidden dragons) where they seem to defy the laws of gravity.
Anybody know more about this?

 

It's for entertainment purposes, it looks cool to see flying swordsmen. People can't float or fly, enlightened or not. Sorry

 

As a student if kendo (Japanese swordfighting) and having learned a very little bit about iaido as well (the art of drawing and cutting in a single attack), I can tell you that almost any kind of swordfighting that you see in the movies will be fake. Of the movies out there that I have seen, the two most realistic that come to mind are The Seven Samurai (great movie, old-school too), and The Last Samurai (where the fighting is emphasized quite a bit, but would at least still be physically possible; though I doubt that Tom Cruise really knows anything about swordfighting, even if he actually spent 3 or 4 months in samurai custody).

And no, the battles in Hero are WAY too unrealistic. Most animes aren't even near realistic; animes like Rurouni Kenshin are rediculous. The most realistic anime I've seen is Samurai Champloo, and even that is stretching it.

We all know swordfighting is cool, but man does the entertainment industry blow it out of proportion.

 

It's very much to do with Chi.

The Taoist have a belief of "enlightenment through the body" which basically means that by refining the chi in the body your mind will follow suit.

Once you've mastered your body you move on to your emotions and once you've mastered your emotions you move on to your mind, mastering that brings enlightenment.

Blessings

Sebbi

 

Hey... came to this thread a little late, but none the less...

Alright, I'm not going pick at this as much as I should cause I freakin' love Jet Li and hero is one of my favorite movies, ever.

I took tae kwon do till I was 12, I've been boxing since and taken many clases in Judo and BJJ, now I've been taking Muay Thai for the past two years, and I've been offered a chance to fight on a pro circuit level kickboxing (muay thai)... didn't take it because I wasn't in the caliber to fight on that level... woulda gotten killed... I'm still learning.

I'm also a Buddhist.

Your not going to learn to defy the laws of nature through martial arts... in fact I'd say one of the most important aspects of becoming a martial artist *I wouldn't call myself a true martial artist* is learning that you have limits... what you do with them is up to you... but never forgeting what you are. You're human, and you'll never fly or throw a Chi blast that'll destroy your enemies.

Anyone who claims such outragous bullshit never fights in MMA tournaments like PRIDE or UFC, and all they'll usually say is 'I don't need the money"... couldn't they think of a charity that could use that money?

Shaolin monks can't compete with pro boxers or kickboxers, and have no super powers, and as much as I freakin love Jet Li... he's more of an actor than a martial artist. *so was Bruce Lee*

Never trust a martial arts effeicency that stresses philosophy over substance such as Aikido or a lot of Karate or Tae Kwon Do ... thats not to say you wont still get something out of them, but I wouldn't go into them looking to mater impossibilities if I didn't wanna get dissapointed.

thats all for now... damn 'Hero's a rockin movie.

 

I'm a practitioner of Several Filipino martial arts like Kali, Arnis, and Escrima. I do find it very benificial to my well-being in all aspects. Both mind and body, and soul. It's one of great tool you should have for achieving enlightenment, I think.

 

I suppose whether or not it is possible to defy the laws of physics depends on whether or not you believe in ki and chi.

I like the idea of them, but personally believe that there is no way that they allow any person to do such outrageous things. =P

For those who don't know, traditionally, chi is the spiritual energy of the body, and ki is the spiritual energy of the mind. The mastering of either supposedly allows a person to concentrate and extend their spiritual energies outside of their body to affect real objects and the spirits of other people. It's a concept that's actually quite similar to "the Force" from the Star Wars movies, though that's a Westernized version.

Through chi, a master should be able to throw a punch at a door, and without physically touching the door, extend his spirit out through his fist and send it crashing into the door, putting a nice big hole in it. Similarly, one could do this with ki, although if ki was used, no body movement would be necessary.

Again, these concepts are pretty neat, but I've never heard of a real person being able to do any of the above mentioned things; the "real" martial arts that focus on "chi" and "ki" more or less just tend to focus on stabilizing and controlling the mind, focus, and concentration of a person, that's all.

... anyway, martial arts doesn't teach you how to break the limits of the world, it teaches you how to extend yourself to those limits, and then become as efficient as possible.

Practicing martial arts is a really big help for many people; it's a self-esteem boost, it's fun, it keeps you fit, and it's intellectually challenging.

I disagree that it's good to stay away from the more philosophical martial arts like aikido, which focuses on defense and has no offensive moves (or so I am told), though. Sure, you won't master impossibilities with them, but I believe there is much to learn in them. It's just that their usages are much more limited. And it's also good to know what martial arts you're studying beforehand: Aikido, for example, was invented by an 80 year old man so that he could defend himself from younger aggressors. Having that in mind, that's what you'll be learning! So don't expect to concentrate and snap boards!

Martial arts, while some focus on defense and others focus on offense, are NOT methods of killing; they're methods of defending yourself and others. However, sometimes to defend, you must take the offensive, and make sure that you don't cross the line and overdo it. This is a key martial art concept to learn ... try and talk first, if that doesn't work, disable your opponent (and prevent him/her from threatening others), and if that's impossible, kill only as a very last resort to spare the lives of other innocents.

... Anyway, I'm rambling. =P

 

Hey whats up Blackie!

I shouldn't have said Shaolin monks and instead said shaolin kung fu.... Shaolin Boxing has been around for a thousand years, and its up to par with about any martial art, (A lot like Karate kickboxing, but allows throws) A 60 year old kung fu master can't take on a 28 year old kickboxer, and usually he'll admit it, thats not to say they're aren't spiritual aspects to ring based martial arts...And anything that doesn't allow the sport aspect of a martial art won't be as effective... sparing begins forging a warrior.

Bruce Lee realised this, and sorta helped found a revolution in martial arts whre function was ephasised over asthetics, he might as well been a grandfather to MMA, and I really admire him for that.

I've taken several Jeet Kun Do classes and he had the right idea, but the art itself is missing out on some things, and Bruce Lee was never much of a fighter, maybe due to back problems all his adult life... I don't blame him for not competing much... but you can't ascribe god like martial arts prowess to somebody who didn't fight.

Bruce Lee's training regimine was lackluster... although records indicated his upper body strength was very good, his lower body strength was only in the top 50% of his weight... he also did little cardiovascular work, so that was also questionable.
resource: http://www.myodynamics.com/articles/bruce.html

I like the guy, and he did a lot for martial arts, but he wasn't a godlike fighter, I can link dozens of real fighters that'd kill him first round.

 

If you want to take a look at the martial artists that are the real deal, check out PRIDE and the Ultimate Fighting Championship. It's kind of like wrestling, except (1) it's not fake, (2) any martial arts are allowed, and (3) it's completely no-holds-barred. =) The way fights really should be.

 

Not all wrestling is fake... just pro wrestling. Submission Wrestlers have tourn up MMA in the past, *Frank Shamrock*

Like I said earlier PRIDE is hella, I still really like the UFC too, but I don't think the caliber of atheletes is the same as in Pride. K1's sweet as hell too, even though its all stand up... (actually they have a few MMA fights too.)

Remy Bonjasky, my fav k1 fighter one the Grand Prix for the second year in a row! Also sherdog.com named Vanderlai Silva (fav pride fighter) fighter of the year. They're both Thai Boxers so I can't help but love that.

This years K1 Grand Prix was sweet as hell, it was probably one of the best ever, which is great considering last year wasn't all that exciting... Although there was only one legit KO... and it was by this Thai guy named Kaoklai who only weighs 170 pounds... and it was aginst Mighty Mo who weighs 280!!! It was crazy as hell. Bonjasky Also took K-1 legend Ernesto Hoost which made me really happy.

 

Aye, well I meant pro wrestling as opposed to ... "pro fighting" I suppose you might call it.

I haven't followed the matches and whatnot closely, but I have to say, I really liked that long fight between Hoyce Gracie and Sakuraba in the UFC, when Sakuraba was basically taking off all of Gracie's uniform to distract him, and Gracie was leaving it on as part of his loyalty! That was a great fight, though I really wanted Hoyce to win! =P

 

That was a great match, I have an AVI of it.

Sakubara has beaten 4 of the freakin Gracies, hes pretty crazy.

 

This seems a little outta place in philosophy and religion...

whatever.

 

Well with all the seriousness and philosophy and religion ... we need a little bit of comedic relief, bloodshed, and mayhem every now and again, aye? =)

 

yeah this thread has to be the best in the place..

lodui, im probly starting up tae kwon do next year (im 18 btw).. is it quite heavily based on kicking or is that just what ive been led to believe.. i havent done any martial arts for a while now due to a lack of decent teachers where i live, but my university next year has a bunch of classes.. just through randomly training myself so my balance, flexibility etc are a lot lot better.. just need the actual art behind it.. also i use to be obsessed with wrestling, especially submission so i can vouche for that being decent fighting form. i remember having a lil wrestle with my mate last year.. (she had done judo for a few years in brazil and weighed a bit more than me) but i was happy to find my years of wrestling stood perfectly against her judo.. but that was just fun..

ok whats up with that ramble..

 

Cool atropine, so you can take TKD at your university...

Yeah, TKD is pretty much the most foot heavy of all martial arts, and its great for balence and it's pretty fun too.

I guess it depends what your looking for... TKD can be a little lacking in terms of practical self defense. The problem with Tae Kwon Do IMHO is that it stresses kicking and not enough boxing... the punching elements of it are pretty weak, in fact the way we were taught to box where I took TKD was to keep our hands at our sides... thats a good way to get punched in the face, so the TKD guard and punching aren't really all that strong, and as far as kicks go, all the kicks are all high and flashy.

Whenever I teach Muay Thai I tell everyone that they should never kick above the sternum unless they're positive it'll land. If you miss a high kick you're just asking to be pounced on... another problem is that all the kicks are from the ball of the foot, and dont really do that much damage, even if you do get caught in the face, in Thai Boxing almost all the kicks are done with the shin... and to the leg or waist of the other fighter... a few of thoose can be crippling.

Like I said it depends on what your looking for, but I've done a buncha ring fighting, and TKD just isn't where its at to really be competetive in a fight. At the same time, TKD iosn't terrrible, you still learn some good counters and kicks, and if you know some ground fighting, you'll be pretty good with that... if you could take some boxing with the TKD you'd be pretty balenced. I always gotta recomend Muay Thai, after bouncing around a lotta martial arts, its the one that I trully love.

I've never taken any Karate, but there are some pretty brutal/effecient forms of it, especially Kyokusin/Okaniwan... Personally if your school offered a choice of TKD or Karate, I'd probably go with the Karate.

But if you're just mainly interested in fun/fitness, there are a lotta things to try, TKD is fun as hell, Akido is really cool looking, and might have some applications if you could through someone into a submission you know... and then theres really weird ones like Capoeria... it'd be really cool to be at a rave or something and do some break dance fighting.

Have fun with it.

 

Brazillian Capoeria is a seriously impressive martial art. Insane. =P

I've observed and learned a very little bit about aikido along the way, from random students at my college. The little bit that I HAVE learned (without actually going to any classes or anything), I've found I can very easily apply to a real life fight, and I actually feel much safer in a fight knowing a bit about manipulating the wrists and joints of my opponents, and being able to take them down.

Aikido is one of the more docile martial arts from what I've seen, as there really aren't any attacks or offensive moves, only defensive moves and ways to disable your opponent's ability to attack. Fortunately, aikido specializes in easiness to learn and apply.

And one thing that I watched a video about and practiced a VERY slight bit with my roommate on our own was Brazillian Jujutsu, which focuses on taking down opponents larger than you, and being in a position where you're sitting on top of their chest (the perfect position to beat the hell out of them =P). It was very interesting.

I've been looking around to find the perfect martial art for hand to hand fighting, the best one for self defense. While tae kwon do and karate look nice, they're very popular, and I wonder about the, er -- actual substance of most places that teach it. =(

Does anyone know of any powerful and very handy martial arts for simple fighting (as in, street fighting/brawling; not that I go to bars and start fights or anything, but ... well you know =P)?

 

i did a few capoeira workshops, was pretty good at it and have always liked it.. the uni also teaches aikido, jujitsu, ninjitsu and karate i think.. maybe a few boxing ones as well.. although im gonna be there for 5-6years so im sure ill have a bit of time to find what i like the best.. as for now, im a much stronger and abled kicker than a puncher, which is probly why i like tkd so much.. not to mention ive always just loved the look of it..(anyone ever seen the jackie chan movie, who am i, with the tkd guy on the rooftops?) ive also always had an interest in jeet kune do, but imagine trying to find a teacher in new zealand..

i did a few karate lessons when i was approx. 7 (cant rmemeber exactly).. i didnt really like it.. although i didnt give it a fair chance to be fair.. the teacher seemed far too obsessed with teaching everyone japanese instead of how to actually defend yourself.. kinda put me off it..

 

Hikaru buddy, I think I mighta said this but if not, Thai Boxing. I've been only studying for about two years, but in terms of effecient practical applications of needing to beat the crap outta someone on the street *should something like that arise* Muay Thai boxing is unsurpassed.

Its the most effective striking art period, it was forged on the battle fields of Thailand and Burma, *not made up by some person calling themselves a master like Karate or Tae Kwon DO* and it streeses function over looks or philosophy. Its basically taking the boxing from western boxing, kicks from the shin to the leg or waist which can cripple an opponent, and then what really seperates thai boxing from other martial arts is the use of knees and elbows in a brutal and effecient way.

I've fought in the ring a bit since I've taken up muay thai, but I only got in one little street fight thing... I was trying to avoid fighting this guy but he shoved me and I just glared at him and he took a swing, I ducked under him and kneed him in the stomach then threw him on the ground and hit him in the face a few times... I coulda really fucked him up, but I just wanted to get outta there. He had 20 pounds on me * I only weigh 160* but it was really quick work.

For the need for self defense in a street fight, thai boxing is unmatched, and for a little demonstration of its effectivness, all I gotta say is Wanderlai Silva. This guys a thai boxer from brazil who is the reigning PRIDE midweight champion, and gone four years undeafeted. *don't download if you don't have broadband* http://www.sherdog.com/videos/videos.asp?v_id=90

Thai Boxing is the king of striking arts.

One of the things I love about MMA is it not only challenges fighters, but also martial arts dogma... you can tell how effecient a style is by how it does in MMA.

 

Lodui, thanks a bunch! I am going to look into Muay Thai Boxing dojos that are around ... your post got me very interested! As much as I love the philosophical martial arts, most of them are a little too weak ... and I'm really interested in learning a functional martial art, and then applying philosophy to it.

I also remember hearing something about a hand-based martial art that was supposedly incredible for striking ... I believe it was Korean, but I can't remember what it was called, perhaps you know. I watched a video where one of the students, using only subtle movements and a fairly slow punch, was able to blow out a candle from over a foot away (minimally) by simply manipulating the airflow around him. It was interesting; not that it was practical, but I was wondering what kind of applications a martial art like that might have in the real world (other than professional candle-blowing, lol).

And I'll download your video once I go back to college after break. I'm stuck on 56k here. =(