Is GLBTQ really one community?

I'm bi and married to a bi woman. I have tried dating both men and women, and have found ignorance on both sides. Gay men were wary of bi men and thought I could be straight, while women were scared I was gay. Then I've noticed that there are many transgendered people who are disdainful even hateful of "cisgender" people.
I recieved several hateful emails because of my blog and talking about a few of the issues and fault lines that exist in the community. How deep do you think the fault lines really are? Are there really several communites dealing with similar problems? Transgendered people deal with a different set of problems as do bi people when compared to people who are gay?

 

I think the GLBTQ community (BTW, I like that you actually included a Q - I rarely see that ) is very united when it comes to public protests and parades and such, but there is much division otherwise.

I have seen women treated very shabbily at gay (male) bars. Also, effeminate men tend to be frowned upon. In addition, older men are merely tolerated. And lesbians are capable of the same intolerance. I once walked into a lesbian bar which had previously been a gay (male) bar, and I was made to feel most unwelcome. And it wasn't due to my age (I was 25). So I left after having one drink.

I find it highly ironic that many gay men will only seek other men that are straight acting and appearing. Also, anyone over 40 is considered old. All gay men are NOT this superficial, but I have seen and known many.

So there is a huge GLBTQ community when it's the right time and place. But after the crowds and cameras are all gone, not so much (IMO). Anyway, welcome to the forums.

QP

P.S. Your safest bet is going to a club that features drag performances. You will find straight, bi, gay, lesbian, trans folks in abundance. And everyone is treated as an equal.

 

I will be honest myself that people who are angry because they are different...like I got shit BC I was bi but I rolled with the punches.
I have seen a lot of playing victim and blaming "cisgenders" for their plight. I came out in high school but I found people were more receptive when you don't play victim and respond to ignorance with grace. I'm all for equal rights but I believe that we should accept people will treat us different we can't win them all. Outside of what are rights when it comes to employment, I can't and wont force someone to accept me any farther than that.

 

When you come to think about this, the community has only one common and unifying, legitimate goal - to end discrimination. Everything beyond that simply cannot work.

I am a gay man. My interest in lesbians, their problems and their experience beyond the above stated goal is frankly, infinitesimal. Sure, some guys will hold a very different opinion here. But on a practical daily level of things, why would a gay man be interested in women, and equally so, why would a lesbian be really interested in any gay or str8 or bi or any other man? If she were, she'd be probably going str8, and avoiding all the discrimination, to start with.

The political goal of ending discrimination is limited to the public sphere. I do not want anyone to be discriminated against when it comes to housing, work or public office. I do very much reserve the right to discriminate when it comes to my personal and private choices of friends, partners, and people I spend my time with. These are two very different issues and should not be viewed as one.

KD

 

How so? I mean, not everyone that walks into a gay bar is looking for sex. Some go for the music (especially if there's a decent dance floor), or are simply looking for someone to talk to.

And the fact is that there tends to be many more gay (male) bars than lesbian ones. So a lesbian has fewer options to choose from. Does that mean she should be shunned for going to a gay bar? Maybe she's hoping to find another lesbian to hook up with. I find no fault in that.

And the same goes for effeminate and older men. Some just go to bars and clubs to dance the night away, and not feel so isolated. What harm is there in being friendly towards them, instead of ignoring them?

I usually made it a point to talk to these ignored LGBTQ folks. Hell, I often danced with many of them. And they were good people. If they misinterpreted my friendliness (as being sexually attracted to them), I just said I had a lover, and only went out because I liked to dance and listen to the music.

I just think there needs to be more acceptance of folks in the community. Regardless of age, gender, or a lack of masculinity. I had a blast during my youth. No regrets.

QP

 

There are trans out there that hate who I am and what I do. Mostly because they're so stuck up on their label and it's definition. It can go the other way too. I've seen dragsters get pissed if someone is trans and dragging (Is it really drag?)

People get hung up on shit. Every community. No exceptions. Just try and negotiate your way through the douches to find the love.

 

But there are a lot of cis people who hate trans people. Who will think nothing of ridiculing, and dehumanizing them. That is an inescapable fact. Are you seriously suggesting that is something that trans people should just put up with?

Also, there are gay men, and lesbians who dislike bisexuals, gay/lesbian people who hate trans people. And I've heard a few gay men saying that they have a dislike for very effeminate gay men. Then there are gay men who hate lesbians and/or women in general, and vice versa. There's even trans people who hate on other trans people.

No, I cannot agree that we should accept that people will treat us differently. Okay, that is something that I do accept. But that doesn't mean I have to play along with that and make out as if I have no problem with that. If someone wants to treat me differently, and in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable and upset, then that is their right, and I respect that. But it is equally my right to not give such people the time of day, or pay them any heed. People can see me exactly how they want to, but that doesn't mean that I have to entertain them in their illusions.

 

I like what you have stated here. And I have done my best to avoid shallow people, and seek out people that are interested in more than just themselves. Have I ever found love? Yes. But I believe loving people just because they are physically attractive is a mistake. Some of the most beautiful people I have known would never make the cover of a magazine.

QP

 

I feel the same way. There's a time to remain silent, and there's a time to make our voices known. But to accept ignorance (by remaining silent) is a dangerous thing. Just to name a few of the people that made the world a better place for all: Harvey Milk, Larry Kramer, Quentin Crisp, Renee Richards, etc. They all spoke out. And their brave words helped the world to see LGBTQ folks as people - not just silly caricatures. :sunny:

QP

 

I have found the most acceptance I have gained was to be open about who I am and take the ignorance of other people with grace. I have gained the respect and admiration of people and helped change their minds because they got to see that not every person in the community fits into their own stereotype. as far as people playing victim and treating others as their enemy I think that those are the ones who will find their roads the hardest. you dont like me because of who I am and I accept your feelings and your right to feel that way if you ever have any questions for me though I am open. it usually shuts people down because im not defending myself directly but trying to be a light and an example.

 

But some are not "playing" victim: LGBTQ people that have been physically attacked and/or threatened. Quentin Crisp was bashed several times in England. Yet he remained witty and graceful to the very end.

Should LGBTQ people not be angry about what happened to Matthew Shepard? Actually, his parents' did respond to their son's murder with dignity and grace. Because Matthew was opposed to the death penalty, they chose to allow his killers to live.

I have been bashed. But I have more straight friends than gay. So I'm not quite sure what you mean by people playing victim and treating others as their enemy.

QP

 

Well, I think there's a difference between accepting others' right to be ignorant, and actually treating the ignorance itself as if it's personally acceptable to us.

There are some people though, who will never change their minds. Also, not being a stereotype tends to put a lot of people out of their comfort zone, and makes THEM put their defenses up. It also needs to be said, that lots of gay and trans people have been genuine victims of hateful prejudice and ignorance, and have suffered greatly due to that. I feel that to call such people "playing the victim" to be in itself, ignorant, and very insensitive. It also shows a lack of understanding of other people's plights. Some people are genuine victims you know, not just "playing at" being one.

Tolerating others' ignorance is one thing, pandering to it, is quite another. Doing the latter only perpetuates the problems, it does nothing to solve them.

 

Yeah, I pretty much feel the same way. Also, I think the last part of your post (I quoted it in bold) is a classic.

QP

 

no no no, see there are people who say hey im gay/bi/les/trans feel bad for me who really are not victimized,
no what happened with Matthew was terrible, and I wasn't trying to pander to anyone's ignorance
I was talking about those who call people cisgender scum, breeders, things like that. I have been treated with disdain because I was assumed to be straight.
I didn't mean to sound insensitive and was only talking about those who have no right to act that way.
the people of the Westboro Baptist church are a good example of extreme if orange, but to do anything aggressive or to call them names is counter productive and doesn't help the situation

 

This line tends to be well intentioned, but I've never particularly found it enlightening. After all, someone always thinks someone else needs to be more open minded. Both parties on opposite ends of a spectrum believe they are open minded whereas the opponent is closed minded. People should not be more open minded so much as they should be more receptive to appreciating the value of something that is not meant for everyone.

 

This absolutely does not ring true for me. My problem, isn't so much that some people can't accept certain things, as much as taking that too far, and actually attacking people who belong to a group which they are not tolerant of. People are free to treat me with disdain and dehumanize me if they wish, and I am just as free to distance myself from such people and and pay them no heed whatsoever. People are free to be intolerant, and people should also be free to shun that intolerance.

The main thing I find here, is that most people like to judge, but do not like to be judged themselves. If you're prejudiced, that's fine. But it also means that you are fair game to have your own views held under a microscope.

 

Now to that I can agree.

 

any time you make your thoughts be known it is that way, amen to that

 

Many people don't believe it should be that way. I have to say though, that most people when they go on about "free speech", they are really only reffering to people who agree with them. You cannot be a true advocate of free speech if you think that any person or group, regardless of their views, should be silenced.

I tend to just stay away from people generally, because I find that humans in general, are just not very nice to be around. There are exceptions, of course, but I don't have the energy to go seeking them out. lol Gay, straight, trans, cis, lesbian, or whatever, I don't discriminate. They're all as bad as each other.

 

if you hung out with me you will not say that about people i am awesome