Fusion?

Carlid · Apr 16, 2012

Viable source of power, or a well to throw money into?

midgardsun · Apr 16, 2012

more energy will not save mankind, it will make things worse

Carlid · Apr 16, 2012

midgardsun said:

more energy will not save mankind, it will make things worse
Click to expand...

How?

Fusion uses lithium and sea water two almost inexhaustable materials, it produces only radiation in the core, and the parts are easy to dispose of, it outputs helium and lithium can be made from fusing that so it can be made to feed itself iteratively.

Wont that end our reliance on coal, oil et al, especially if a car sized version is developed?

midgardsun · Apr 16, 2012

Carlid said:

How?

Fusion uses lithium and sea water two almost inexhaustable materials, it produces only radiation in the core, and the parts are easy to dispose of, it outputs helium and lithium can be made from fusing that so it can be made to feed itself iteratively.

Wont that end our reliance on coal, oil et al, especially if a car sized version is developed?
Click to expand...

Hi

The problem is also what we do with the energy.

In our society energy is not used to get people smarter, healthier, happier, it doesnt ensure the survive of future generations so its wasted.

Wasting energy to just get more degenerated is useless even if its efficient sources of energy or a perpetuum mobile.

Carlid · Apr 16, 2012

midgardsun said:

Hi

The problem is also what we do with the energy.

In our society energy is not used to get people smarter, healthier, happier, it doesnt ensure the survive of future generations so its wasted.

Wasting energy to just get more degenerated is useless even if its efficient sources of energy or a perpetuum mobile.
Click to expand...

So what's your solution all give up energy and go live in a field?

I think Jesus had a similar idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjrn4dXE2yI"]TMWRNJ - Sunday Heroes - Consider the Lily - Matthew - YouTube

Consider, consider, consider...

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

midgardsun · Apr 16, 2012

So what's your solution all give up energy
Click to expand...

Not give up energy but use it in a smart way.

and go live in a field?
Click to expand...

a culture different from ours doesnt mean living in a field.

Carlid · Apr 16, 2012

midgardsun said:

Not give up energy but use it in a smart way.
Click to expand...

Well yes we all know the holy grail is efficiency.

A fusion generator that was 1% efficient would pay for itself in 10 years.

The reactor in Europe achieved that briefly before it was shut down and plans to build a bigger Tokamak style generator were unveiled.

ITER though is plagued by the usual political and funding rows, but then what's new?

a culture different from ours doesnt mean living in a field.
Click to expand...

Incidentally you should probably watch that clip, it is not only funny but it gets at exactly what I am saying.

But anyway so you are claiming we should reinvent culture?

Who's going to enforce this revisionism exactly?

Link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER

When deuterium and tritium fuse, two nuclei come together to form a helium nucleus (an alpha particle), and a high-energy neutron.

2

While nearly all stable isotopes lighter on the periodic table than iron-56 and nickel-62, which have the highest binding energy per nucleon, will fuse with some other isotope and release energy, deuterium and tritium are by far the most attractive for energy generation as they require the lowest activation energy (thus lowest temperature) to do so, while producing among the most energy per unit weight.
All proto- and mid-life stars radiate enormous amounts of energy generated by fusion processes. Mass for mass, the deuterium-tritium fusion process releases roughly three times as much energy as uranium 235 fission, and millions of times more energy than a chemical reaction such as the burning of coal. It is the goal of a fusion power plant to harness this energy to produce electricity.
The activation energy for fusion is so high because the protons in each nucleus will tend to strongly repel one another, as they each have the same positive charge. A heuristic for estimating reaction rates is that nuclei must be able to get within 100 femtometer (1 × 10−13 meter) of each other, where the nuclei are increasingly likely to undergo quantum tunneling past the electrostatic barrier and the turning point where the strong nuclear force and the electrostatic force are equally balanced, allowing them to fuse. In ITER, this distance of approach is made possible by high temperatures and magnetic confinement. High temperatures give the nuclei enough energy to overcome their electrostatic repulsion (see Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution). For deuterium and tritium, the optimal reaction rates occur at temperatures on the order of 100,000,000 K. The plasma is heated to a high temperature by ohmic heating (running a current through the plasma). Additional heating is applied using neutral beam injection (which cross magnetic field lines without a net deflection and will not cause a large electromagnetic disruption) and radio frequency (RF) or microwave heating.
At such high temperatures, particles have a vast kinetic energy, and hence velocity. If unconfined, the particles will rapidly escape, taking the energy with them, cooling the plasma to the point where net energy is no longer produced. A successful reactor would need to contain the particles in a small enough volume for a long enough time for much of the plasma to fuse. In ITER and many other magnetic confinement reactors, the plasma, a gas of charged particles, is confined using magnetic fields. A charged particle moving through a magnetic field experiences a force perpendicular to the direction of travel, resulting in centripetal acceleration, thereby confining it to move in a circle.
A solid confinement vessel is also needed, both to shield the magnets and other equipment from high temperatures and energetic photons and particles, and to maintain a near-vacuum for the plasma to populate. The containment vessel is subjected to a barrage of very energetic particles, where electrons, ions, photons, alpha particles, and neutrons constantly bombard it and degrade the structure. The material must be designed to endure this environment so that a powerplant would be economical. Tests of such materials will be carried out both at ITER and at IFMIF (International Fusion Materials Irradiation Facility).
Once fusion has begun, high energy neutrons will radiate from the reactive regions of the plasma, crossing magnetic field lines easily due to charge neutrality (see neutron flux). Since it is the neutrons that receive the majority of the energy, they will be ITER's primary source of energy output. Ideally, alpha particles will expend their energy in the plasma, further heating it.
Beyond the inner wall of the containment vessel one of several test blanket modules will be placed. These are designed to slow and absorb neutrons in a reliable and efficient manner, limiting damage to the rest of the structure, and breeding tritium for fuel from lithium and the incoming neutrons. Energy absorbed from the fast neutrons is extracted and passed into the primary coolant. This heat energy would then be used to power an electricity-generating turbine in a real power plant; in ITER this generating system is not of scientific interest, so instead the heat will be extracted and disposed of.
Click to expand...

Log in or Sign up

Fusion?

Carlid Banned

midgardsun Senior Member

Carlid Banned

midgardsun Senior Member

Carlid Banned

midgardsun Senior Member

Carlid Banned

Log in or Sign up

Fusion?

Carlid Banned

midgardsun Senior Member

Carlid Banned

midgardsun Senior Member

Carlid Banned

midgardsun Senior Member

Carlid Banned

Useful Searches